So that DarkDracul won't be mad at me, I will move this post/discussion to as he says, "a related thread".



Thanks Jen!

I don't feel that this is disrespecting Gandalf at all. He played a great game and deserves this years championship. He is one of the top players in the world, playing the best team combo of "Jabba and Bib", there currently is, and he is the top dog of 2022. I congratulated him in the Vassal Con post, not expressing my feelings about Jabba there. So I express my opinion here and you want to silence me because you want to "allow some time to celebrate our new world champ"? I respectfully disagree with you and I don't feel that this in any way takes away the glory of Gandalf's Vassal Con win. Please don't try and control how someone feels compelled to express on a forum for a "game" that we all are playing and have been playing for over a decade. This is a community and as long as we are civil and discussing matters in a congenial matter, please don't be over controlling in your use of power of when we can discuss things. Thank you

By the way, that's 2 years in a row that Jabba is in the championship squad.

Here are facts;

Mando's Jabba Squad in last year's VassalCon was 4-2, with one of his losses being to DarkDracul's Jabba squad

DarkDracul's Jabba squad in last years VassalCon was 5-1, with his 1 loss being against the top SWM's player of all time, TINT, in swiss. Jabba Momma won last year.

Gandalfthegreatestwizard's Jabba squad was 6-0 and won VassalCon this year.


That means that Jabba squads are 15-3 ( again 1 loss was against another Jabba squad ) in the last 2 years of the champs, against the best players in the world.


The hand writing is on the wall ( imho )

Whatever is done with Jabba and/or Bib, the characters should play the same way on the board, and Bib should lose that errata that didn't do anything anyway. Cost change, squadbuilding restrictions, or ban - that's fine.

Bib didn't cause any problems from set 11 all the way until Jabba showed up. Banning Bib might help, but it's also possible that if Bib gets banned, Jabba ends up being too strong without Bib anyway and we have this conversation again next year.

I get what people are saying about Jabba and Bib, but i don't think its broken as it is now compared to what it was last year. If something needs to change, i'd say the cost needs to go up on Jabba because the reinforcements rule change makes him a 15 point piece to kill that has a ton of hp. There are counters to Jabba squad's tho!

Init control helps a lot! If you can out activate them also, that is very good. Thrawn swap might be a very strong counter in the right hands. During testing leading up to VassalCon, i went up against Gandalf's Jabba squad that won the tournament and almost won the game in a close battle where Bib Fortuna had to land the decisive blow after i had taken out all of his main attackers. It was a really fun battle! I was running a sith squad with Revan, Dark side Nexus, Set Harth and Lord Kaan. I was running a very good deep strike squad also (Revan sets up next to Dark Force Nexus, gets moved by it and then Revan moves 18 square and swaps in Set Harth or Kaan for lots of damage). Gandalf's squad was very strong but during my test against him during practice, i didn't think it was unbeatable. You just need to play very carefully against it and know how far it can reach. There are squads that don't stand a chance against it because its a bad matchup, but isn't that the case with a lot of really good squads? As long as there are other good squads that can counter it what Jabba does, its going to be ok.

The meta is pretty wide open right now. I think the main thing that makes the Jabba and Bib squad so powerful is the deep strike capability. I ran it for that very reason last year in VassalCon because i figured that people were going to be running Nightsisters. during Swiss, i went up against Jason's Nightsister squad and it was very close. I had to beat Jason's Nightsisters in a very close match yet again in the final 6. My game against Dark Dracul's winning Jabba squad was very close and it really could have gone either way. It takes a lot of skill to play a Jabba squad because you need to know the map and what minis on the opponent to target. That is why the Sith Triumverate squad is also likewise very good. Its also a very good deep strike squad that can target key pieces with Traya phasing through walls and hitting people. Deep Strike seems to be the a really good choice right now in the meta.

The meta is: Jabba, Mando, Thrawn. It is clearly not open at all. It is actually more closed now than it was 6 sets ago. It is just that people stay away from the top of the top.

The meta is pretty wide open?????????????????? Look friend, 2 world championships in a row and a competition record of 15-3 ( actually 15-2, because of 1 loss to another Jabba squad ) in the last 2 years is not wide open. That is clear dominance. Scoreboard doesn't lie. You cannot debate this fact. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

This years Vassalcon championships was a little weird in that we saw gungan squads being run. no one could have predicted that. And i can debate the fact that other great squads we've seen win other regionals and even Gencon this year, didn't show up at VassalCon, so to dismiss them as not being part of the meta is nonsense. I think had there been a few more of those top squads in the VassalCon championships, we'd have seen some very interesting results and things could have turned out very different. A outactivate and smash Thrawn squad does very well against Jabba, yet did we see anyone bring Thrawn swap? No. Did we see Sith Triumverate with an amazing best deep strike capability show up? No. So how can you say these would have been crushed by Jabba squads? You can never predict what will show up and people running Tarpals gungan squads was a good choice to counter what most others were going to bring. However it wasn't a good matchup against a deep strike Jabba squad. Jabba was a good choice to bring, but he isn't the be all end all choice your making him out to be, because we just haven't seen them matched up yet against perfectly competitive counters. Every squad has counters! The only case when there was a squad that could beat everything was with Daala and that is why she got temporarily banned and eventually errata'd. There is no current squad that just completely beats every and any squad it is faced up against. And that is very true in the meta right now. You can choose to not believe it and that is fine. I've run Jabba squads to great effect and there are many varieties those squads can be, but i do know that there are matchups that are not easy and others that are just really bad to face. It all depends if you see them in a tournament or not and if you get faced up against them.

Without Jabba, does that mean the meta is Mando-Thrawn?

Tarre is the sole reason why melee is unplayable. He surpasses all other melee at the same time is their best counter. Melee is too weak and too ce dependent to withstand him.
So yes Tarre kicks butt and is meta warping. The only melee we saw was vong (pathetic).

If you get rid of jabba you are left with thrawn winning everything.

The game needs a tier 1 Bastila squad more than ever. But you all are too afraid to do it.
It would instantly close tier 2 and open tier 1.
Drop rival off Malak and see how much fun people have.

Top 6.... People always talk about the top 6. But the difference in squad and ability and potential of the squads in top 6 was broken down to top 1. Once the tournament squads were announced we all knew who was winning.

Revanchist do not have a chance. Tier 1.5. Look great in Tier 1.5 pseudo competition tournaments.

If you get a squad that can beat Thrawn and Jabba (Bastila) then everything changes. It busts the meta.