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The Force Unleashed 2.0: the Way it Should Have Been Options
cicrush13
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:30:51 PM
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Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:
cicrush13 wrote:
It wouldn't be a bad thing to have Palpatine to have LSB to that way non-melee could still hit him for something.

Just thought of this - storm commando only has 40 hp, how can a regular stormie with melee have a higher amount of HP?


Yeahh... Block sounds accurate. I'll add that. And the stormies with the Force Pikes aren't just regular stormies, they have specialized armor (at least, that's what it looks like). They are quite difficult to kill.


Based on the game yes they can be tricky, but so are the evo troopers and they only have 30 HP I believe (otherwise they have 20).
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 11:18:37 PM
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Alright: I've got an idea: drop the HP down to 40, but give him an ability like Blast-Proof Armor (When this character takes damage from a non-melee attack, he reduces the damage dealt by 10.)
Then, raise the cost, and voila! the new and improved Stormie!
cicrush13
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 11:27:43 PM
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Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:
Alright: I've got an idea: drop the HP down to 40, but give him an ability like Blast-Proof Armor (When this character takes damage from a non-melee attack, he reduces the damage dealt by 10.)
Then, raise the cost, and voila! the new and improved Stormie!


Isn't that the same as dark armor? only are you making it immune to lightsabers too?
Segastorm
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:42:06 AM
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cicrush13 wrote:
Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:
Alright: I've got an idea: drop the HP down to 40, but give him an ability like Blast-Proof Armor (When this character takes damage from a non-melee attack, he reduces the damage dealt by 10.)
Then, raise the cost, and voila! the new and improved Stormie!


Isn't that the same as dark armor? only are you making it immune to lightsabers too?


No Dark armor works on anything but a lightsaber, this works on non-melee attacks, so pieces that have melee attack but don't have a lightsaber, like Jarael, can't be affected by Dark armor, but by this.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:16:45 AM
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It's pretty much the same as Damage Reduction, but it only works if he gets shot. Although, now it occurs to me that that would be a bit broken, because he'd be immune to 10 damage shooters. How about this: He gets 60 Hit Points and Lightsaber Weakness (This character takes an extra 10 damage when hit by attack with a lightsaber.)?
cicrush13
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:24:35 AM
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Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:
It's pretty much the same as Damage Reduction, but it only works if he gets shot. Although, now it occurs to me that that would be a bit broken, because he'd be immune to 10 damage shooters. How about this: He gets 60 Hit Points and Lightsaber Weakness (This character takes an extra 10 damage when hit by attack with a lightsaber.)?


So you're suggesting that he has "weak spots" and take an auto 30 (or 40 from darth bane or sith rage or lightsaber percision)? Force attunted armor effect might be a lil better.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:42:40 AM
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I was going for him being resilient from blaster shots, but it doesn't take much to slice him in two. FAA doesn't really fit what I was going for. I'm trying to kinda go the middle path between "At 70 he could take 4 hits from a lightsaber" and "At 40 he's too easy to kill with a shooter." Here, he only can take 2 hits from a saber, and he's not too easy to drop with a blaster.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:06:24 AM
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Ummm...Anyone else care to comment? I'm really looking for input...maybe?...possibly?...please?
Segastorm
Posted: Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:11:28 AM
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you want someine who's hard to kill with a shooter, but easy to kill with a lightsaber, go damage reduction maybe a special kind that ignores penetration.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Friday, September 3, 2010 8:01:21 AM
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I was going to go with DR, but...You've played the game, right (and posted quite a few customs from it)? They could be taken the other stormies could be taken down easy by reflecting their fire back at them...I imagine that they would be the same. I don't want to make them immune to, say, Rebel Trooper fire, who are trained to kill them...I'm kinda on the fence on balance between some resilience to shooters (but not too much) and being able to be taken down easily by lightsabers.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Friday, September 3, 2010 8:02:57 AM
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Now I understand why Wizards released the minis and never made revisions like I am. Initial dissatisfactions and errors in wording/abilities-ing/accuracy would have been a real headache for them getting critique from thousands of players.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Friday, September 3, 2010 8:06:16 AM
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That last post was poorly phrased. I very much appreciate critique, but compromising between accuracy and what I/you guys think they should roughly be like is kinda...difficult? No, that's not the right word... uhhh... contrariwise? That might be the right word... I will probably think of the perfect word at the worst possible time tomorrow, and forget it before I can come back here Smile
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 10:35:09 PM
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I finally have an idea for the lightsaber/blaster issue. How about this: Blast-Proof Armor (When this character takes 10 Damage from a nonmelee attack, he can avoid it with a save of 8. When this character takes 20 Damage or more from a nonmelee attack, reduce the damage by 10. Whenever this character takes damage from an ability whose name contains Missiles, Grenades, or Mines, reduce the damage by 10 with a save of 11.)
Segastorm
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 12:35:15 AM
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not too bad
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 12:54:33 AM
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Alright.
Revisions
Change Stormtrooper with Force Pike's Hit Points from 50 to 40.
Add Blast Proof Armor (When this character takes 10 Damage from a nonmelee attack, he can avoid it with a save of 8. When this character takes 20 Damage or more from a nonmelee attack, reduce the damage by 10. Whenever this character takes damage from an ability whose name contains Missiles, Grenades, or Mines, reduce the damage by 10 with a save of 11.) to Stormtrooper with Force Pike.
Segastorm
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 1:57:12 AM
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You did a nice Job HBSV, you're set is awesome.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 3:00:04 AM
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Thanks. I put a lot of thought into this; I'm glad that I've been noticed. Didn't really expect to.
saber1
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 3:10:36 AM
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More input:

1. DVBotJ completely replaces all Vaders. For the cost of DVSotJ you gain all its best and all the best of Unleashed for the same cost. Not to mention it is front-loaded to use LST5 in round 1, eliminating the need for Palps on Throne.
2. DV'sA has a lot of direct damage potential/options for only 34 points. Additionally, he is a much more dangerous melee attacker than the two WotC pieces.
3. Imperial Medic seems much more like a nonmelee beast than a healer. Quad and Twin? Way over the top. Medical supplies and heal are great choices though.
4. Lord Palpaine is both too expensive and too powerful. Tone down WotDS's damage potential and drop LP's cost accordingly. Also, JHE should probably be JH instead. Even then, how often did Palps personally hunt jedi?
5. Shadow Stormtrooper...I'll take it!
6. Kazdan is very cool but should be toned down a bit. Don't reinvent IDR, use what WotC gave us. Also, there should be a limitation to the CE as it is super powerful. Multiple IG-86s with Programmed Target is just one brutal example I'd prefer not to see. Also, Cyborg would make sense with your Robotic Apparatus.
7. Shaak's CE is fantastic. She makes Felucians more useful and straightens the aim of the Rebels. The loss of Cunning and Reposte is :-( but given what she gains is an acceptable trade-off.
8. Bail has Diplomat and Stealth? Also, Reserves 30 may be a bit much. Perhaps drop to 20.
9. I like what you are trying to do with Juno. However, she will either be 34 wasted points or create absolutely broken CE synergies depending on what your opponent brings to the table.
10. Kento is severly undercost. Also, giving a charater FP1-5 seems like a shotgun approach. Pick 2, perhaps FP2 and FP5 and give him something else. Also, parry with the easy addition of Evade from Rieekan with renewal and Duelist makes him very difficult to kill for a sub-30 point character.
11. Wookie Crusader, if everything stacks, has far too much damage potential for a 16 point piece. I suggest dropping Impulsive Selfishness.
12. Bull Rancor = nasty ouchness!
13. Felucian Clan Chieftain should have a base damage of 10 as does the Force Adept (given that they both have Force Weapon).
14. MBFL looks solid, though her starting force should be 3 given she is very likely to gain renewal 2.
15. Darth Desolus: why such a huge Lightning? Drop to 4 or 5. DA20 seems a bit much as well. Also, Block seems odd. Did this character not use a Lightsaber? Drop the HP, Lightning and cost.
16. Darth Phobos has some interesting abilities. DoF and ISYF are pretty strong combined with a base attack of 16 with Triple and Twin. Once based, DP will pretty much auto-hit anyone and is a severe pain to kill. I might tone down the attack and defense stats so that it relies more on DoF and ISYF. Also, I'd at least drop Triple in favor of Double.

There is some very good work here. I hope I don't sound overly critical and that my input helps refine your creations.
Human Black Sun Vigo
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 3:46:44 AM
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Thanks.
I hadn't realized the CE synergies from Juno...I should change the CE so that it only works on Unique commanders.
I guess that I kinda went overboard with Palpy. I definitely want to keep the high-damage Lightning, but as is, I agree it's too much. Would dropping the FP cost down to 6, changing the damage dealt to 60 (save 11) and activating (save 16), dropping JHE to JH, and bringing cost down to 102 be less broken?
As for Kazdan, perhaps the reserves shouldn't be subject to his CE (I gave him IDR 35 so that he could bring in all of the Junk droids that I made). Reword the CE so that the Reserves don't get PT good?
I hadn't originally noticed Vader's LST5/F3FR2 combo. Would dropping his starting FP to 1 be fair, and raising his cost by 10-20 points be fair?
Vader's Apprentice-Change Grip 2 to grip 1, Push 3 to Push 2, and change Repulse 2 to Repulse 1 (Only affects adjacent characters), raise cost to 41. That sound good?
Medic- Double, Furious Assault, and Rapid Fire Blaster (If this character hits an enemy, he can make one immediate attack against the same enemy; this extra attack does not stack with itself or other abilities that grant extra attacks) instead of Quad and Twin sound fair? Those guys kept firing at you after they hit you once, so i wanted to kinda translate that to the custom.
Bail-Drop Reserves to 20, drop diplomat, and give him Senator (When an enemy attacks this character, they must attempt a save of 11 that cannot be rerolled. If the save is not made, that enemy's attack counts as a natural 1.) and keep price?
Kento- Take Push 4&5 off, drop LS Deflect and Parry and replace with LS Defense?
Crusader-Replace ICA and Momentum with Impulsive Charging Fire and Impulsive Momentum?
Maris- Add something to her Impulsive abilities that it needs to be a Unique with a Lightsaber and a Force Rating ? that way, you have to actually spend at least 16 points with Jax Pavan to trigger them. Might make people think twice about sacrificing someone, because they'll lose significant points
Desolus- His lightning (in the game) was pretty hurtful, but you could usually avoid it, and he needed time to recuperate. Drop down each damage set by 10, drop the FP cost to use it to 6, and rename the ability Sith Lightning 6? That way, he still does significant damage, but it'll be simple enough to reduce it significantly and reverse the hurt to Desolus.
Phobos-Drop the -4 Defense penalty from ISYF and drop triple to double?
saber1
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2010 3:58:14 AM
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Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

I guess that I kinda went overboard with Palpy. I definitely want to keep the high-damage Lightning, but as is, I agree it's too much. Would dropping the FP cost down to 6, changing the damage dealt to 60 (save 11) and activating (save 16), dropping JHE to JH, and bringing cost down to 102 be less broken?


Its still too powerful as he can move out into the open and just blast everyone for massive damage. The problem as I see it is the LOS portion. Perhaps have it target a character within LOS and then deal the same damage to all characters within 6 of the target. Otherwise, on open maps, you can devastate an entire squad in one activation under not uncommon circumstances.

Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

As for Kazdan, perhaps the reserves shouldn't be subject to his CE (I gave him IDR 35 so that he could bring in all of the Junk droids that I made). Reword the CE so that the Reserves don't get PT good?


IDR 35 seems so out of place to me. 5's are not often used in this game so a 35 seems foreign. Most everything else is in multiples of 10 and upping your SA to 40 would be redonkulous. Why not trip down the Junk droids so that they fit under the 30 point halo?

Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

I hadn't originally noticed Vader's LST5/F3FR2 combo. Would dropping his starting FP to 1 be fair, and raising his cost by 10-20 points be fair?


At this stage of the game LST5 is the signature power of Vader, Unleashed and giving it to another Vader steals VU's thunder. Why not drop it to LST4? And I would not give Vader a starting force of 1 because it doesn't fit him. F2,FR1 or F2,FR2 would be ok.

Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

Vader's Apprentice-Change Grip 2 to grip 1, Push 3 to Push 2, and change Repulse 2 to Repulse 1 (Only affects adjacent characters), raise cost to 41. That sound good?


Why not drop push completely and leave Grip 2 and Repulse 2?

Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

Medic- Double, Furious Assault, and Rapid Fire Blaster (If this character hits an enemy, he can make one immediate attack against the same enemy; this extra attack does not stack with itself or other abilities that grant extra attacks) instead of Quad and Twin sound fair? Those guys kept firing at you after they hit you once, so i wanted to kinda translate that to the custom.


Or Twin and Flurry.


Human Black Sun Vigo wrote:

Phobos-Drop the -4 Defense penalty from ISYF and drop triple to double?


I like that. Sounds good.
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