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qvos
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:44:02 PM
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Wow! An excellent playable decently coted Revan with a very useable CA. Good job GuysThumbsUp
Lord_Ball
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:06:13 PM
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Master Tactician + Cunning is a great Combo, but with only Double Attack and a CE that's restricted to himself, I get the feelling that without Triple Attack or perhaps Anticipation instead of Master Speed (thinking about it more this would actually be my preferred "change"), he's still overcosted.
wannabe mexican
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:27:29 PM
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Thanks to this, I will probably start seriously looking for a Darth Revan mini to buy.
adamb0nd
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:07:06 PM
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Yeesh. Swap in with his own ability, swap out with Sidious. He'll be hard to target.
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:29:59 PM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
Master Tactician + Cunning is a great Combo, but with only Double Attack and a CE that's restricted to himself, I get the feelling that without Triple Attack or perhaps Anticipation instead of Master Speed (thinking about it more this would actually be my preferred "change"), he's still overcosted.


I think you mean Intuition, not Anticipation?

I see how one can say the CE is restricted to himself, but don't forget the character he swaps with. Besides, Sith already has regular swap in Sidious SM.

Since this guy can actually fight, I think I like this version of swap better than the original, especially in a faction that relies on mice to spread CEs.

I really don't think he is overcosted, but it's easy to say that when looking at the other version, lol.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:42:53 PM
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swinefeld wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
Master Tactician + Cunning is a great Combo, but with only Double Attack and a CE that's restricted to himself, I get the feelling that without Triple Attack or perhaps Anticipation instead of Master Speed (thinking about it more this would actually be my preferred "change"), he's still overcosted.


I think you mean Intuition, not Anticipation?

I see how one can say the CE is restricted to himself, but don't forget the character he swaps with. Besides, Sith already has regular swap in Sidious SM.

Since this guy can actually fight, I think I like this version of swap better than the original, especially in a faction that relies on mice to spread CEs.

I really don't think he is overcosted, but it's easy to say that when looking at the other version, lol.


Actually I meant surprise move (but the freebie version would work too!)- Don't know what I was thinking there!

Comparing him to Sidious Sith Master and Maul Sith Apprentice - Which both have Triple Attack and cost less (Maul costs considerably less) I just don't see him quite being worth the points on average.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 1:30:10 AM
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Darth O wrote:
He still wouldn't be able to swap with Droids or Savages (apart from empathized ones), would he?


Nope. CE restrictions still apply.

Something to keep in mind, he is the ultimate hit and run fig. He can move 12 and still Assault. And don't forget, there are 2 pieces in the set to boost his Damage.
LoboStele
Posted: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:08:20 AM
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Yeah, with Bandon and Kun, he can easily get up to 50 damage per hit. Well, I say easily, but it does require some careful Mouse Droid placement. Still, not too hard to do. But, the ability to do a 1st activation strike for somewhere between 60 and 100 damage, and then swap out to safety is not available to any other faction right now. In all other factions, you need 2 activations to do this (1 to attack, 1 to swap), which means if you win init, you have to let the other guy go first. So, killing Revan is going to be near impossible in many games, especially because once you actually do pin him down somewhere, he's either going to pop out somewhere else again, or his Lightsaber Defense and MOTF2 will keep him alive a while.

Now, the other thing to remember, is that he WILL burn through FPs like nobody's business typically. The few games I playtested him, I really struggled to hang onto FPs, which I thought was really cool. Forced me to make tough decisions on when to use Master Speed/Assault, and when to hang onto FPs for Defense. Overall, he's a really awesome piece, and there's still more to come in the Sith faction. :)
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:27:50 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
Master Tactician + Cunning is a great Combo, but with only Double Attack and a CE that's restricted to himself, I get the feelling that without Triple Attack or perhaps Anticipation instead of Master Speed (thinking about it more this would actually be my preferred "change"), he's still overcosted.


I think you mean Intuition, not Anticipation?

I see how one can say the CE is restricted to himself, but don't forget the character he swaps with. Besides, Sith already has regular swap in Sidious SM.

Since this guy can actually fight, I think I like this version of swap better than the original, especially in a faction that relies on mice to spread CEs.

I really don't think he is overcosted, but it's easy to say that when looking at the other version, lol.


Actually I meant surprise move (but the freebie version would work too!)- Don't know what I was thinking there!

Comparing him to Sidious Sith Master and Maul Sith Apprentice - Which both have Triple Attack and cost less (Maul costs considerably less) I just don't see him quite being worth the points on average.


The differance is Revan does his damage on the move, AND has higher damage and attack then both maul and sid SM.

Also He can defend himself as maul and Sid SM can't

He can get himself out of danger, Maul and Sid SM can't

He can move 20 and setup another one of your beats to do their thing in the same phase, once again maul and Sid SM can' do that.

He autowins you init (as long as you dont roll a 1) maul and Sid SM cant

He has a higher defence AND HP then both Maul, and Sid SM.

So while yes he doesn't have triple, he does have assualt, so he will be droping 60 on someone then swapping for a brute most of the game. I think its only come up once in my playtests with him that he stayed to double instead of moving and swapping. Maul and Sid SM are good but for only 5 more points then Sid you get a piece that can do all of the above but cant triple attack. I would say he is well worth it.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:21:05 PM
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Weeks wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
Master Tactician + Cunning is a great Combo, but with only Double Attack and a CE that's restricted to himself, I get the feelling that without Triple Attack or perhaps Anticipation instead of Master Speed (thinking about it more this would actually be my preferred "change"), he's still overcosted.


I think you mean Intuition, not Anticipation?

I see how one can say the CE is restricted to himself, but don't forget the character he swaps with. Besides, Sith already has regular swap in Sidious SM.

Since this guy can actually fight, I think I like this version of swap better than the original, especially in a faction that relies on mice to spread CEs.

I really don't think he is overcosted, but it's easy to say that when looking at the other version, lol.


Actually I meant surprise move (but the freebie version would work too!)- Don't know what I was thinking there!

Comparing him to Sidious Sith Master and Maul Sith Apprentice - Which both have Triple Attack and cost less (Maul costs considerably less) I just don't see him quite being worth the points on average.


The differance is Revan does his damage on the move, AND has higher damage and attack then both maul and sid SM.

Also He can defend himself as maul and Sid SM can't

He can get himself out of danger, Maul and Sid SM can't

He can move 20 and setup another one of your beats to do their thing in the same phase, once again maul and Sid SM can' do that.

He autowins you init (as long as you dont roll a 1) maul and Sid SM cant

He has a higher defence AND HP then both Maul, and Sid SM.

So while yes he doesn't have triple, he does have assualt, so he will be droping 60 on someone then swapping for a brute most of the game. I think its only come up once in my playtests with him that he stayed to double instead of moving and swapping. Maul and Sid SM are good but for only 5 more points then Sid you get a piece that can do all of the above but cant triple attack. I would say he is well worth it.


Don't read too much into the triple - I'd prefer he had Surprise Move over Master Speed rather than Triple instead of Double. As Surprise move gives him a few more options available that would make him worth his points.

I'm not saying he's overcosted by a lot - more like just a couple points (60 points seems about right), as compared to sidious - Sidious has a bigger bag of tricks, but Revan is rather self sufficient (with the exception of needing an ally to swap with). There's certainly squads you can build that won't matter if you spend a few extra points on Revan that will do just fine, but overall my opinion on him is unchanged.
LoboStele
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:04:09 AM
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Well, you're spending a FP either way for Surprise Move vs. Master Speed, and honestly, I see Master Speed being more valuable. Say you need to move 12 squares to get to an enemy, but you really don't want to go first in the round, so that you can pull off the 1-2 punch. With Surprise Move, you'll be forced to move out 6 squares, and likely leave Revan exposed while the opponent takes their first activation. With Master Speed, you can still stay hidden during that first activation, and then run your full 12 to pull off the attacks.

And Revan will hardly ever need to use Surprise Move in order to move back into hiding...that's what his CE is for. Maybe I'm just not seeing whatever it is you're seeing, but I think Master Speed is much more valuable, and allows you to stay hidden and move exactly when you want to. Doesn't force you to do half your movement always at the beginning of the round.
Weeks
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:21:35 AM
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Agreed. Also remember he has assault, so surprise move isn't needed to setup double.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:50:24 AM
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... Or say there's an enemy with 60 HP left 6 squares from Revan and another 8 squares from that character. Revan can Suprise Move 6 next to Enemy A LS assualt it to death then Take his move +a FP to get adjacent to Enemy B and swap in [insert other Sith Beatstick Here] who lays the beatdown.

It's easy to set up situations where any ability is a key component...
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:57:58 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
... Or say there's an enemy with 60 HP left 6 squares from Revan and another 8 squares from that character. Revan can Suprise Move 6 next to Enemy A LS assualt it to death then Take his move +a FP to get adjacent to Enemy B and swap in [insert other Sith Beatstick Here] who lays the beatdown.

It's easy to set up situations where any ability is a key component...


I think that ties in with Lobostele's example more though. You want to get the 1-2 punch in there, but can't do that on the first activation. Surprise move leaves Revan open for an activation.

Surprise Move has it's uses, but I imagine Master Speed will prove to be slightly more useful over a myriad of other situations.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:03:14 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
Don't read too much into the triple - I'd prefer he had Surprise Move over Master Speed rather than Triple instead of Double. As Surprise move gives him a few more options available (sure you lose the option of moving an extra 12 with MOTF2 and Master Speed, but the potential he gains can easily surpass that) that would make him worth his points.


Master Speed doesn't stack. You can only add 14 to his movement.

And he is so far from overcosted. He compares pretty easily to both Maul and Sidious. Heck, he compares very easily to Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow, the two Sith that I actually think about playing (hmmm, Master Tactician & Sith Sorcery). What he has is very powerful. Much more powerful than Sidious, thus the cost.
LoboStele
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:05:34 AM
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Yeah, I think I'm going to VERY much enjoy playing Revan and Naga together. Master Tactician (on a well costed, usable piece) plus Sith Sorcery is just brutal. Those kinds of combinations alone will really cause some headaches for the tempo control squads. Not only will Revan/Naga put somewhere up near 140 damage on a piece (60 from Revan, 80 from Naga, thank you Virulent Poison), but then he can activate half of the rest of your squad. And then they both have excellent defensive abilities with LS Defense and Illusion.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:04:05 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Master Speed doesn't stack. You can only add 14 to his movement.

I removed that as I realized when I put that I was relating it too much to move faster.
billiv15
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:18:23 AM
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More than 1/2 Lobo, I don't know why you ignored or forgot Bandon and Exar FS in the squad. That's the natural fit for the ultimate control squad :) And yes, if you all wondered, it was one of my favorites in play testing.
CrunchBite
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:29:19 AM
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Joined: 8/6/2009
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Lord_Ball wrote:
... Or say there's an enemy with 60 HP left 6 squares from Revan and another 8 squares from that character. Revan can Suprise Move 6 next to Enemy A LS assualt it to death then Take his move +a FP to get adjacent to Enemy B and swap in [insert other Sith Beatstick Here] who lays the beatdown.

It's easy to set up situations where any ability is a key component...



The Jedi Instructor can solve this issue nicely with Mobile Attack, although you will have to play OR to pull it off.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:32:51 PM
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CrunchBite wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
... Or say there's an enemy with 60 HP left 6 squares from Revan and another 8 squares from that character. Revan can Suprise Move 6 next to Enemy A LS assualt it to death then Take his move +a FP to get adjacent to Enemy B and swap in [insert other Sith Beatstick Here] who lays the beatdown.

It's easy to set up situations where any ability is a key component...



The Jedi Instructor can solve this issue nicely with Mobile Attack, although you will have to play OR to pull it off.


By my calculations even with the Instructor it would not be possible as the given scenario required 14 spaces of movement + a LS Assualt (for a total of 3 FPs Spent), which just wouldn't be possible. You could add in Hoth for the extra 2 squares, but to pull that off wouldn't be quite as straight forward.

The point is that while Lobostele's example may come into play some of the time, it certainly will not come into play ALL the time (as neither would mine), so giving a scenario that outlines where one ability is better than another is a moot point.
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