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urbanjedi
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:57:21 AM
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Yeah, but no matter how it turns out he can still leave negative feedback.

Darth Noob
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:33:02 AM
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Location: Gilbert, AZ
Quote:
Yeah, but no matter how it turns out he can still leave negative feedback


If you can demonstrate that the negative feedback is simply retaliatory it can be removed...but your best case for this happening would be if he opens a case and loses. If he just leaves negative feedback, it's a little harder and takes more time.

That being said, jak is right. You rep is your name. But you can perhaps meet him part way and offer to refund his money, less fees incurred, if he wants to ship it back at his expense. Then you really only lose your time on the deal.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:15:33 AM
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ok thanks for your advice! I especially like TreebeardtheEnts’s suggestion, but I’m just afraid I could lose a lot of money if he opens a case and wins. So, from what im getting, there’s absoloutly NO chance I could lose, right? If someone tells me that I have an at least 95% chance of winning a possible case, then I guess ill use TreebeardtheEnts’s suggestion and offer no refund. But I don’t want to risk it if he could have an outside chance of winning and make me pay.
i actually wouldn't mind taking off about 0.5% of my feedback score b/c i'm never selling again. So just say that negative feedback isn’t really an issue. It’s the losing a lot of money in a case that im realy worried about.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:47:15 AM
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With respect to Treebeard and Jak, this buyer needs to learn to be a responsible adult. There is no reason why you should have to grovel to get good feedback. There is absolutely 100% no ground for him to stand on. I would recommend to let him know, however your own style is, that

1. The item was clearly listed
2. You both entered a contract, which you both completed
3. You were very explicit about the mini not having a card.
4. You will not be refunding
5. You both lived up to your respective ends of the deal and that you will leave positive feedback as soon as he leaves his.

If he leaves you negative feedback, you go to eBay about it. I do not think that I have EVER seen a seller be as explicit about a mini missing a card as you were.

BTW, wouldn't it only be like $10? (Being in college, thats money I could use, but it isn't a disaster)

The bottom line is that it is his responsibility to read the description before bidding, and he needs to know that that is why he has no case. However harsh you want to do that is up to you, but it's possible to be both blunt and respectful. Personally, I would go with "Although it may seem unfair, it is your responsibility to read descriptions before you bid. I cannot be held responsible if you do not take the time to read my item descriptions. They were clearly presented."

AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:57:16 AM
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Location: Nebraska
shatterpoint7 wrote:
So, from what im getting, there’s absoloutly NO chance I could lose, right?


There's no chance you could lose in a world that wasn't full of unreasonability. I too would be cautious about this, since the "customer is always right" BS might spring up.

I would message him telling him you lived up to the contract and that won't refund, and make sure you tell him that you will leave positive feedback as soon as he leaves some for you, since both of you deserve it according to the contract. If he refuses, or threatens to leave negative (or leaves negative, which would be feedback manipulation) that falls under feedback extortion: "A buyer threatens to leave negative or neutral Feedback, or low detailed seller ratings (DSRs) for you unless you provide goods or services not included in your original listing"

You provided everything in your listing. You should be fine.
tonythetoyman
Posted: Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:26:41 PM
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TreebeardTheEnt wrote:

This is a little too harsh. When dealing with upset customers in writing you need to be absolutely professional so they have nothing to use against you. Not knowing the privet exchange you have had till now I would respond somthing like this:

Thank you for contacting me. I understand that you are disappointed about not receiving a card with the purchase of Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter, but the auction clearly indicated that there was no card and presented the stats as an alternative. Since it appears that you are not happy with the written stats, I have taken the time to locate a card scan on-line. You can download and print it here: http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=SWmini/SWminiLOTF40cadecardfr.jpg.

Since you agreed to the sail per the eBay contractual guide lines when you confirmed your bid, and the item you received is per the description of sail item 140498815311, I will not be issuing a refund and returns are not accepted.

Sincerly,
...


I agree with this approach 100%... It is polite, professional, and helpful. There is no way you would lose on eBay as you were very clear and offered the chance to ask questions (I've sold over 3000 items and have bought nearly 400 items on eBay and am as certain as I can be of this). He probably just read the title and bid (that is not your fault). I'd be surprised if he leaves negative feedback if you are nice about it, but it is possible. It's also possible that eBay would remove it under some circumstances (you can read about what's possible on their FAQ). I've never received negative feedback even thought I've run in to a few problems, and I think it's because people appreciate it when you are polite and professional even if things don't go in their favor.

If you do refund, eBay will give you all your fees back (you have to ask) and usually let you relist for free, and PayPal will definitely give you all of your fees back for anything you refund (you don't even have to ask, it is automatic). But, we are talking about so little money that even if he has to pay for postage both ways because of his mistake he's basically paying $5-6 for nothing vs. $11.50 for something.

I hate it when this type of thing happens and am sorry you have to deal with this (you really shouldn't have to).
shatterpoint7
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 7:31:38 AM
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ok i talked with an ebay representative (his name was glenn, nice guyThumpUp ) he said pretty much the same things youve been saying. since it says no card in the description, i dont have to refund him. so here i go, taking a stand against the buyer, with treebeard's suggestion!
bigphesta
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:08:23 AM
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Where is this "customer is always right" bs coming from? First, that's not true. Second, its ebay and there's no customers, just buyers and sellers. The buyer in this case was a moron. He misread the post. You are living up to your end. Step up, tell him to shut up, and move along.
nuksaa
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:14:40 AM
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Not being much of an eBay seller, can't you protest negative feedback? IF the guy gives you negative feedback to spite his own fault, there should be recourse to protect the seller.

Stand your ground and make him accountable for his purchase. Take a step back and realize the eBay seller rating is just a statistic. Does anyone look negatively on someone with 99% rating vs 100%?

This guy is lucky he didn't buy from me. I would have explained things as Treebeard did and reinforced with Glenn. IF he still wasn't satisfied, I would offer to purchase the mini back. Considering he thought he bought a mini with a stat card for $8, then just a mini only should be worth $0.25 and I will not be paying for postage. Then I would have some choice ideas of what he could do with said $0.25.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:18:05 AM
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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Location: Nebraska
bigphesta wrote:
Where is this "customer is always right" bs coming from? First, that's not true. Second, its ebay and there's no customers, just buyers and sellers. The buyer in this case was a moron. He misread the post. You are living up to your end. Step up, tell him to shut up, and move along.


I'm not sure if you're from the USA, but here I've heard lots of horror stories (and seen a few as well) of extreme effort to meet the requests of the cumtomer/buyer, no matter how ridiculous or rude the customer is (I liked it much better when I went to Europe). I think everyone knows that the customer is NOT always right, but its the attitude of a lot of those who dictate customer service policy is just that. (Sorry, but customer and buyer are synonyms; however, that doesn't mean that this clown that didn't read the description of the item isn't out of line)

Be careful on ebay folks, there's been times where had I not sent a message to the seller asking, I would have bid on a item without a card. Sellers like the OP do it exactly right.
bigphesta
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:03:20 PM
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
bigphesta wrote:
Where is this "customer is always right" bs coming from? First, that's not true. Second, its ebay and there's no customers, just buyers and sellers. The buyer in this case was a moron. He misread the post. You are living up to your end. Step up, tell him to shut up, and move along.


I'm not sure if you're from the USA, but here I've heard lots of horror stories (and seen a few as well) of extreme effort to meet the requests of the cumtomer/buyer, no matter how ridiculous or rude the customer is (I liked it much better when I went to Europe). I think everyone knows that the customer is NOT always right, but its the attitude of a lot of those who dictate customer service policy is just that. (Sorry, but customer and buyer are synonyms; however, that doesn't mean that this clown that didn't read the description of the item isn't out of line)

Be careful on ebay folks, there's been times where had I not sent a message to the seller asking, I would have bid on a item without a card. Sellers like the OP do it exactly right.


I'm from the US and have had a few jobs in retail. Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, 50% of the population is dumber than that.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:12:05 PM
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Joined: 12/26/2008
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Location: Watertown, SD
bigphesta wrote:

I'm from the US and have had a few jobs in retail. Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, 50% of the population is dumber than that.


Yep, after working so long in retail, you learn that there's always new levels of stupidity, rudeness, and laziness people can sink to. The most common examples I experience are people who buy furniture but lack the means to take it with them (e.g. buying a 6-ft dining room table and chair set and expecting it to fit in the trunk of a Honda Civic) and upon encountering a product with a display, will open up a box (usually destroying the box in the process), remove all the contents and examine them despite all the contents being on the display shelf, then leaving the contents scattered across the aisle grab a different box to purchase because the first box "had been opened".
nuksaa
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:34:11 PM
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bigphesta wrote:
Where is this "customer is always right" bs coming from? First, that's not true. Second, its ebay and there's no customers, just buyers and sellers. The buyer in this case was a moron. He misread the post. You are living up to your end. Step up, tell him to shut up, and move along.


Most managers of retail stores learned there job from a book vice rising up in the ranks. Therefore, the 'powers that be' have developed little to no people skills and cannot understand conflict. Hence, they avoid it by giving customers whatever they want. Additionally, the 'PC' pressure is such that this organization fear a lawsuit based on a presentation of some demographic to profess discrimination and unfair treatment. So a 'give them what they want in order to avoid larger costs' comes into effect. Pretty sad when it comes down to a fear of the law because of those who know how to massage the system.
eMouse
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:55:41 PM
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Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 256
I think if I was in your position, I'd probably offer the link to the card pic, and to refund the purchase price of the item if they sent it back in the same condition as it was sent in. I wouldn't refund the $3 shipping. Gives them an option if they really are that upset about the purchase, but still puts the cost of the mistake on them in the shipping fees. But I also think that'd be doing more than is necessary.

Keep in mind that under eBay's current system, you have the opportunity to post a response to any feedback the user leaves. If they leave a negative or neutral comment, you have the opportunity to leave a short, concise message as to why it's the buyer's fault. eBay also has policies on feedback that mean the occasional negative feedback cycles away after a while and no longer impacts your rating.
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:06:36 AM
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Posts: 256
EmporerDragon wrote:
Yep, after working so long in retail, you learn that there's always new levels of stupidity, rudeness, and laziness people can sink to.


I worked in a UPS Store and you'd have people come in to ship things that were ridiculous to ship, such as a case of soda, then get angry with us when we told them how expensive it would be to ship it. It's fragile, if it breaks it's going to destroy other packages around it, and it's all water, so it's dense and heavy.

You'd also have customers bring in fragile stuff that they're sure they've packed correctly. Like one lady who came in with a set of glasses, stuffed in a shoebox with only newspaper as padding. The box was packed so tightly that the corner couldn't even lay flat on one side. I could have dropped the box two feet onto the counter and shattered every glass in the package. I refused to ship the package as it was after explaining politely that it needed to be repacked. She left in a huff saying she'd take her business to another store. Good luck with that. If she did manage to find someplace to ship the package as it was, it was guaranteed to break in transit and be more trouble than it was worth.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:25:13 AM
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bigphesta wrote:
Where is this "customer is always right" bs coming from?


It's the nice way of saying, "The Customer is an Idiot, but may be 'sue happy', and it's cheaper to give in now than incure lawyer/court fees."

per the topic at hand - hold onto that email that stated "MY MISTAKE IS YOUR GAIN" or however it was stated as that is indisputable evidence that the issue is a buyer mistake and NOT yours (useful for defending yourself from inappropriate negative feedback, or a dispute if one opens).
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 6:22:11 AM
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nuksaa wrote:

Most managers of retail stores learned there job from a book vice rising up in the ranks. Therefore, the 'powers that be' have developed little to no people skills and cannot understand conflict. Hence, they avoid it by giving customers whatever they want.


It's not really that, mangers tend to give in simply because it's not cost effective to argue. If I'm arguing with a customer over how much I can take off of a display model for an hour, that's an hour's payroll down the drain where nothing gets done and no other customers in my department get helped. Sometimes it's better to cut the store's losses and give in, which I tend to be willing to do depending on the customer's attitude.

I tend to stand my ground however with the people who spout drivel like "the customer is always right" as 99.99% of the time they're entitlement [gender specific b-word] who believe that they are God's special snowflake and the world must dance to their every beck and call and how dare a lowly servant such as myself refuse to indulge their whims. I once fought one of those people over a 2 cent price difference simply because of their attitude. It was a satisfying victory.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:26:44 AM
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well its been a week since i told him no refund. no negative feedback or cases. no news is good news i guess.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:38:36 AM
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I mean ofcourse IMO its the buyers fault for not reading the auction, he clearly just bidded & went to the next auction because its right out there to see easily if you read it. Also i mean what $9 for a Cade Skywalker BH, i mean comon i wouldnt even complain about that if i were the guy even without the card. I mean its harder these days well i know around me atleast for find actually Tourney's anymore & when i do play its just with friends & in my house so i wouldnt mind paying $9 for just a cade figure. Also im pretty sure if you make a Trade Tread saying you need a Cade Skywalker BH card someone has an extra to trade.

But i see your delima Shatter, your wondering is the $9 worth keeping & taking a chance of losing a case with paypal & ebay & getting bad feedback or just refund him & know your safe i guess.

I mean only you can really choose on the action i can only give my opinion & i would say honestly dont refund him. I would contact ebay & plead the case with them & see if theres really anything he can do,which i think you'll be fine. & with paypal if ebay says your good im pretty sure you'd be able to show paypal some kind of proof that it was a legit sale because if that were the case all you would have to do is buy stuff off people from ebay, then just say there was a problem & keep the item & get refunded so im pretty sure since you can link paypal accounts with ebay they are in the loop, thats just my opinion.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:47:45 AM
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great news ThumpUp for some reason or another (probably something to do with getting great advice from my fellow bloomilkers ThumbsUp ) the guy left positive feedback! well the only thing he said was "." but that is better than anything i ever dreamed of a while ago! so i get to keep my 100% feedback and i get to keep my money!Woot
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