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Renegades and Rogues (contains spoilers for V-set 2. Full set list now up) Options
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:50:54 AM
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As of right now I do not see much of a use for r2-d2 and c-3po but surely as more v-set pieces are released I will understand it better.
jedispyder
Posted: Saturday, June 4, 2011 6:16:40 AM
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Not every piece has to be a game changer. Sometimes it's created just to appease fans and such.

One thing to think of, though, is that Blaster Upgrade on a piece with more than a cruddy Defense and 10 HP is definitely a benefit to squads. Similar thing to having a new Relay Orders than can withstand more than a hit/Flamethrow/etc.
Darth_Sal
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 2:02:53 AM
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Surprised no one has said anything about Dooku, who must certainly have a CE... kind of interested to see what he brings for living Sep characters...and definitely not droids.
saber1
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:50:17 AM
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Interesting choice of characters.

I'm glad to see new characters like Winter, Saul Karath, Bardan Jusik, Master Kavar, Master Thon, Wier, and Mohc. That said, I'm a bit disappointed to see dupes of some very well represented characters and new versions of very minor characters when we still don't have a 2nd and competitive piece for Corran Horn. I may be wrong, but he's a much bigger and well known "minor" character than Atton Rand and HK-47. Furthermore, he is a Rogue, which makes his absence from this particular set even more of a head scratcher.

18th Luke Skywalker
12th Darth Vader
5th Dooku
5th Mace Windu
5th R2-D2
4th Kyle Katarn
2nd HK-47
2nd Atton Rand

Finally, thanks to all involved in producing V-set pieces. Please don't mistake my critique for ingratitude.
Demosthenes
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 4:37:20 AM
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saber1: While I understand the dissatisfaction with getting more of the same characters, and am also disappointed there isn't a new Corran Horn, I have to say, from what I've seen, the reprints of old characters are either needed, or present a much different facet of these characters. Yes, we're getting another Luke. But how many playable Lukes are there from around the time of Episode 4? None. And I bet this Luke will be much different from any Luke we've had before.

And have you looked at the stats for Vader? He's completely different from any Vader we've gotten before, as well! And how many playable Dookus are there? You could make a case for Serenno, but I've never seen him at a competitive tournament. Same goes for Mace: have you ever seen any of the Maces played at a Tournament? And we've never seen a Rebel Kyle, so that's like getting a completely new character. And both HK-47 and Atton were due for an update. HK-47 was outclassed by the IG-86s, and the new Atton has a very different flavor to him than the old one, which was a bit too fragile and too much of a one-trick pony.

So, in reality, none of the stuff we're getting is same old, same old. And even if we didn't get some characters in this set that I would've liked to see (Master Corran Horn being one of them), we've got more sets coming!
Sashlon
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:00:23 AM
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...and yet people whined about DOTF not having enough recognizable/classic characters represented in the set. I guess you can't win them all...
markedman247
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:25:17 AM
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Nope. Everyone has their favorite flavor. If you went to Baskin-Robbins, saw they had 31, you would hear someone complain about their favorite not being on the list.

I could be dismayed about the lack of a "Lieutenant Kettch, Rebel Pilot" but that wouldn't be productive.
saber1
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 7:15:14 AM
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Sashlon wrote:
...and yet people whined about DOTF not having enough recognizable/classic characters represented in the set. I guess you can't win them all...


I was not among them.
saber1
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 7:24:30 AM
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Demosthenes wrote:
saber1: While I understand the dissatisfaction with getting more of the same characters, and am also disappointed there isn't a new Corran Horn, I have to say, from what I've seen, the reprints of old characters are either needed, or present a much different facet of these characters. Yes, we're getting another Luke. But how many playable Lukes are there from around the time of Episode 4? None. And I bet this Luke will be much different from any Luke we've had before.

And have you looked at the stats for Vader? He's completely different from any Vader we've gotten before, as well! And how many playable Dookus are there? You could make a case for Serenno, but I've never seen him at a competitive tournament. Same goes for Mace: have you ever seen any of the Maces played at a Tournament? And we've never seen a Rebel Kyle, so that's like getting a completely new character. And both HK-47 and Atton were due for an update. HK-47 was outclassed by the IG-86s, and the new Atton has a very different flavor to him than the old one, which was a bit too fragile and too much of a one-trick pony.

So, in reality, none of the stuff we're getting is same old, same old. And even if we didn't get some characters in this set that I would've liked to see (Master Corran Horn being one of them), we've got more sets coming!


Good points. I don't have problems with any specific piece that I listed, only the general number of characters receiving new versions when A. They have playable versions currently and B. Other "fan favorites" either have one weak version or none at all. My hope is that the commitee will consider my opinion for future sets while I enjoy playing the pieces they have released. Here's hoping for a better Corran in V-set 3.
Darthbane53
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 7:57:48 AM
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Im just glad there are V-Sets and I can get my hands on them!
Azman
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 8:45:13 AM
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Darthbane53 wrote:
Im just glad there are V-Sets and I can get my hands on them!


+1 (+ bucket loads !)

Bring on more cards , customising and most importantly FUN !!!!!!
Baegn
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:05:02 AM
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I'm having more fun making customs now, than I ever have before. My customs now have purpose.
Azman
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:54:35 AM
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Baegn wrote:
I'm having more fun making customs now, than I ever have before. My customs now have purpose.


agreed ThumbsUp
Darthbane53
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:16:36 AM
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Baegn wrote:
I'm having more fun making customs now, than I ever have before. My customs now have purpose.

Same here. I havent played in a month or so because of school but trading on here and making new customs, even if I dont sue them is fun!
Darth_Sal
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 2:01:10 PM
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Darthbane53 wrote:
Baegn wrote:
I'm having more fun making customs now, than I ever have before. My customs now have purpose.

Same here. I havent played in a month or so because of school but trading on here and making new customs, even if I dont sue them is fun!


+1! I have not played for quite a while, simply have not had the time... but collecting is also part of the hobby and customizing has really become my creative outlet. Love it!
Ruhk
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 2:48:51 PM
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I'll just add this; sometimes when setting up the set list we have some design goals, like new concepts we want to add to a faction, or a new ability. Often this goes hand in hand with a character. Sometimes this ends up being yet another iteration of a figure. Oh well. The goal is to add something new to the game and I hope all of our 'remakes' do that.

Also, don't think for a minute we won't listen to you. I know that I made sure to get some of the top requested characters into R&R, since it was what the community clearly wanted! And I'm sure the as-of-yet unnamed vset 3 will have more of the same for you to enjoy. :D
wannabe mexican
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:13:08 PM
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The reason we have another Atton Rand is so the OR can get a powerful in-faction shooter. The V-Sets at the moment are about bringing more power and competitivity ( a word?) to the lesser factions. If this means we have to perform the evil of creating a second Atton Rand, then so be it.

HK-47 is, IMO, about bringing more diversity to the Separatists who only really have 2 types of competitive squads.

Admittedly the NR does lack a little diversity, usually revolving around Ganner Rysode throwing members of the Solo/Skywalker dynasty around, but they are super competitive. They just won one of the Regionals. I am sure we will get a great Corran Horn soon, in fact V-Set 3 is meant to be all about the Force users. I would like to see and end of NJO era Corran as a liason between the NR and the Jedi. With some kind of rapport for troopers or something.

The New Vader is doing what he can to bring Imperial Troopers back into the mix. I am happy with that. The new Luke is offering a slightly new thing for the rebels even though they don't need anything new. Winter is offering a nice in Faction shooter that can pair up well with Leia.

I think that this set is the last set of making huge power pieces for the OR, Sith, Vong, Mandos. From now on I think we will be getting a mre even spread of power and different charaters.
billiv15
Posted: Sunday, June 5, 2011 11:11:44 PM
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I really like the Corran Horn suggestion for Set 3. Given that our theme is going to be something about the force, I think there is a great chance he might be one of the guys we look at for a new version. And I certainly appreciate the comments Saber1, its always a balance between those that want remakes of their favorites, and those that want completely new pieces. Let me see if I can at least offer a bit of explanation to each of the ones you mentioned - not as an argument, but as why they were chosen.

18th Luke Skywalker - I think this was the highest community want - it's him in the stormtrooper, so people can play with Han. He's also very different than any other Luke we've ever had - I think people will like him.

12th Darth Vader - Again, different than anything before. This was Dennis' design and idea. He wanted a Vader that would make troopers more playable in the current game. I think we've managed to make something like that here.

5th Dooku - He's a commander and totally different than any other Dooku - it was a very high community want, up there with Luke in Stormtrooper armor. How many threads have had on "Why doesn't Dooku have a Commander Effect?" over the years? Well, we made one, and he's pretty cool.
5th Mace Windu - Simple, we have a ton of sculpts, none of which are more than marginally playable at this time. The one we made should be tier 1-2 and at the very least, finally Mace will see some table time.

5th R2-D2 - It's R2 and C3PO to be fair, and they are New Republic. This was number 3 on the community list, we decided to do one piece instead of two, and for such a central set of characters for the SW's story, you can't argue that these shouldn't have been made.

4th Kyle Katarn - We don't have a Rebel Kyle. But to be 100% clear, this was not a design team choice. This is the mini designed by last year's Gencon winner. He was allowed to choose the character and faction that he wanted to make, and had the point role in it's design. Obviously there were some limits to his choices (we weren't going to agree to anything at all), but this was Daniel's choice. And I support it.

2nd HK-47 - Fan favorite, first mini is nearly unplayable, and this one has two specific in game purposes as well. Not only was it highly desired to have a new HK, but it also fit some design goals for game balance that we wanted to work for. More on this later :)

2nd Atton Rand - Again, Atton was an ok mini, marginally playable, but we needed a new version. If you want the OR to have a good unique shooter, Atton is the man. Not to mention, he fits two factions, and fit as a pilot/renegade for the set theme as well.

2nd Carth Onasi (you missed this one but I'll add it) - not the highest community want, but it was up there. And I think it was the highest want of the "complete garbage" minis from WotC. Serves a similar purpose to Atton overall, fitting the theme and what not.

As for overall balance, we will continue to add powerful pieces to all factions. You will see with RaR that Republic, Imperials, Seperatists all have gotten some really powerful pieces as well. Rebels get some interesting stuff as well, but I would say because of how limited they were, the lesser factions again will make the most powerful strides. And we aren't going to undo that in future sets either. Set 3 is intended to be a balanced set list, of both faction and power.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Monday, June 6, 2011 12:04:11 AM
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billiv15 wrote:
5th Dooku - He's a commander and totally different than any other Dooku - it was a very high community want, up there with Luke in Stormtrooper armor. How many threads have had on "Why doesn't Dooku have a Commander Effect?" over the years? Well, we made one, and he's pretty cool.


Well it's about time the known leader of the seperatist movement got to start bossing people around!

I'm most intrigued by the teams take on Lord Kaan, particularly how close it is to my own custom of him.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, June 6, 2011 2:17:47 AM
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billiv15 wrote:

As for overall balance, we will continue to add powerful pieces to all factions.


I love what the committee did with DotF and what I've seen so far from RaR. My only concern is that if the pace continues it could make the WotC pieces all outclassed. I hope we see more pieces that specifically revive otherwise outdated pieces. For example, the new Vader and imperial troopers, Niles Ferrier, Poggle for Geonosians, Atris for Echanis (who weren't bad to begin with). I'm really glad to see it happening - I hope it continues.
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