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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010 Posts: 1,628
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jak wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:First off I want to post her stats Cost 37 100 Unique Melee Double Attack 19 Cunning Attack 12 Intuition 20 Bodyguard Mettle Parry Force 2 Renewal 1 MoTF 2 Absorb Energy Force Leao Lightsaber Assault Force Push 2
I am wondering how many people find this to be a balanced fairly well costed piece.... I know I know people are probably tired of hearing from me for all the mace crap, but oh well. I won't offer my opinion yet I just want to see other people's comments about this piece first. I did notice that the OP's opinion of S. Shan was not offered until a whopping total of 1.75 other opinions were posted. all this P-ing & moaning about all the v-set design so called errors is now a complete waste of time. mistakes were made future sets will learn from the past sets the horse is dead-please stop beating the poor beast. this apparent lack of appreciation for the v-sets is starting to kark me right the force off! If it appears to be a lack of appreciation that is my fault, not at all the intent of the topic.... But I will never stop "complaining" about pieces that are not costed appropriately to their abilities and what they bring to the table in squad building and future design. I do not consider this complaining I consider it discussing, since in all reality what I am trying to say will have no effect on anything other then my own hopes.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2010 Posts: 1,291
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Lack of appreciation and complaining are completely different things. I raise up concerns about pieces that I feel will change the way the game is played, and change the way future V-sets are created. I do not complain about the time and effort the designers put into these pieces, I just dislike pieces that are severely undercosted and set the bar way to high for other good pieces to be competitive.
These BHC pieces are just to good, hands down. You can give me 5-8 squads that can beat this Sidious, but out of those 5-8 squads, can they beat the new Luke? NO. Maybe 2/3 of them have a chance, but thats it.
So my concern is now, after an almost great regional (minus the undeniable Armageddon that was Mace Windu) where the meta was wide open, we will now see a siginificant decrease in what is ran. I will go ahead and tell you guys what the 5 most popular squads will be this regional.
My list as follows:
Mandalore the Vindicated
OR Satele/ Bastila squads
The BHC pieces ( unless I can convince you guys to ban them from 200 point play)
And the Spotter/Sniper droid squads
With honorable mention going to New Han and Leia, mainly because were all fans of episodes 4-6, and its nice to see some stronger versions of those characters. Minis Just go and play these pieces, don't play them against something that will beat it specifically, play it against something you want to run at regionals/ Minis Mania, and come back on here and give us a report, I promise you will not be happy with the results.
With much love for the V-set designers (who if they would listen to Shmi15/ Deaths_Baine things would be alot smoother)
Shmi15
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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Don't forget V5 will be out before the Regionals.
Barring major changes to a few key pieces, I see a few more squads in there. Vong and Sep in particular. I also see NR being pretty good. You just have to trust me on this.
The meta may shift, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do think more things can compete against the BHC pieces than a lot give them credit for.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Jedi_Master wrote: V-set 1: Bastila Shan, Jedi Master 33 points Old Republic Senator 14 points Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 16 points Yammosk War Coordinator 15 points
V-set 2: Atton "Jaq" Rand 36 points Darth Zannah 48 points Lord Kaan 36 points Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side 65 points General Weir 28 points HK-47, Assassin Droid 39 points Klatooinian Captain 18 points
V-set 3: Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal 16 points Figrin D'an 10 points Greedo, Bounty Hunter 17 points Momaw Nadon 15 points
You simply listed the some of the good pieces and called them game breaking. I deleted the references to set 4, because I didn't have anything to do with that. But in those first 3, I take some pride that I either designed, helped balance or offered some critical part of each character here, with like 2 exceptions. I stay far away from the "broken" arguments these days, but come on, these are broken??? Everyone??? Your definition is interesting to say the least. I love Cantina Brawl though, perhaps one of my favorite design opportunities. I'm so glad some of these guys are being used and complained about.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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shmi15 wrote: My list as follows:
Mandalore the Vindicated
OR Satele/ Bastila squads
The BHC pieces ( unless I can convince you guys to ban them from 200 point play)
And the Spotter/Sniper droid squads
With honorable mention going to New Han and Leia, mainly because were all fans of episodes 4-6, and its nice to see some stronger versions of those characters.
I have trouble believing that Mace/GOWK, Storm Commandos, Naboo death shots (although they will struggle against Mandalore the Vindicted), and other top squads from this year are suddenly not good any more. I think they have good matchups against a lot of the above squads.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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What am I missing about Mandalore the Vindicated? What makes people so sure he's going to be top tier? Looking at him, I see a typical big beatstick with some luck bonuses and a movement breaker. Beskar'Gam and Evade or Parry will help him survive, but his HP aren't that great (not bad) and his defense is low for his cost (but typical since he's a shooter). I haven't played him, but looking at him I would guess him to be playable and possibly find his way into a competitive squad, but it's not clear to me at all.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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Disruptive is where his real strength lies. Which is why he will cause some problems for Luke. Non-melee means no Djem So, Disruptive means no Luke's Bodyguard. Add in some of the other options availble to him, he will be seeing play.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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TheHutts wrote:
I have trouble believing that Mace/GOWK, Storm Commandos, Naboo death shots (although they will struggle against Mandalore the Vindicted), and other top squads from this year are suddenly not good any more. I think they have good matchups against a lot of the above squads.
People always confuse gatekeepers with meta. Not saying any of the above will or will not be in the gatekeeper category, but the argument that these will dominate is indeed premature. Just like the Mace comments were. Nothing we've released through 3 full sets and subsets has "dominated" the meta. That doesn't mean we won't ever make a mistake, or that we haven't made minor ones with individual characters, but all in all, we've certainly opened it up a ton from what WotC was able to do. And I took a completely WotC squad (never even used a V-set reinforcement) and took it to 2nd at Gencon. And that was with a total of 3 tournaments played between Gencon 2011 and Gencon 2012 that I played in. In otherwords, I have very little experience with V-set 2 or 3.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/12/2012 Posts: 332 Location: Earth
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Jedi_Master wrote:I am just going to sum everything I can say up into this, the most overpowered units of the V-sets:
V-set 1: Bastila Shan, Jedi Master 33 points Old Republic Senator 14 points Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 16 points Yammosk War Coordinator 15 points
V-set 2: Atton "Jaq" Rand 36 points Darth Zannah 48 points Lord Kaan 36 points Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side 65 points General Weir 28 points HK-47, Assassin Droid 39 points Klatooinian Captain 18 points
V-set 3: Quite honestly, there isn't anything I can think of in v-set 3 that was too out in left field. Good units, yes, but nothing absolutely insane like the afore mentioned. The next few are from the mini set, which seems to be what all the over powered units were saved for: Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal 16 points Figrin D'an 10 points Greedo, Bounty Hunter 17 points Momaw Nadon 15 points
V-set 4: (still in the works, but the so far too good category) BX Sniper BX Spotter (not putting point cost on these two because it can vary a bit based on squad type) General Grievous, Hero of Hypori 42 points Master Yoda 44 points Anakin solo, Galactic Hero 40 points Satele Shan 37 points Qui-gon jinn, force spirit 16 points
All of the mini's mentioned have either set the bar higher than ever, made it near impossible to design around, or boxed out units in their point range completely. There is nothing wrong with making good units but the ones I have mentioned here are not good units, they are near broken units that obsolete just about everything else. I agree with you about most of these. v-set 1 Yeah, definitely Bastila, but I'm not sure about the War Coordinator, since it's the Yuuzan Vong faction. v-set 2 I agree with you on all of these. Even though Mace is one of my faves, he is overpowered. Definitely. v-set 3 Dr. E for sure, but I don't really know if the others are broken. Momaw is a game changer, definitely, but I haven't seen Greedo or Figrin get too much play. I just don't really know about them too much to tell. v-set 4 GGHOH isn't broken, IMO. He'll be fun to play with, but will fail against a lot of competitive squads. He can't really get much synergy, since Whorm is pretty much the only good boost to living Seps. The BXs are a challenge to beat, and they obsolete quite a bit of characters. Now Master Yoda, I don't think is broken. He's good for fun with the younglings, but he isn't going to become competitive, IMO. Anakin Solo and Satele Shan are mysteries to me. I don't know too much about them yet. And Qui-Gon. Love him, but he does a lot with Light Spirit (possibly combining with Light Tutor) and Sense the Future is one of the most powerful Force Abilities around.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Can someone explain to me how the BX's are overpowered? A BX Sniper squad is going to have a tough time against a mobile squad. For the most part, they are only going to be moving 6, then they can't move again or they lose their attacks. Your opponent will be able to take advantage of this. The mobility that either the A1s or the IGs alone will keep them the preferred choice for many players.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2008 Posts: 267 Location: E-town PA
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Jedi_Master wrote:I am just going to sum everything I can say up into this, the most overpowered units of the V-sets:
V-set 1: Bastila Shan, Jedi Master 33 points Old Republic Senator 14 points Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 16 points Yammosk War Coordinator 15 points
V-set 2: Atton "Jaq" Rand 36 points Darth Zannah 48 points Lord Kaan 36 points Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side 65 points General Weir 28 points HK-47, Assassin Droid 39 points Klatooinian Captain 18 points
V-set 3: Quite honestly, there isn't anything I can think of in v-set 3 that was too out in left field. Good units, yes, but nothing absolutely insane like the afore mentioned. The next few are from the mini set, which seems to be what all the over powered units were saved for: Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal 16 points Figrin D'an 10 points Greedo, Bounty Hunter 17 points Momaw Nadon 15 points
V-set 4: (still in the works, but the so far too good category) BX Sniper BX Spotter (not putting point cost on these two because it can vary a bit based on squad type) General Grievous, Hero of Hypori 42 points Master Yoda 44 points Anakin solo, Galactic Hero 40 points Satele Shan 37 points Qui-gon jinn, force spirit 16 points
All of the mini's mentioned have either set the bar higher than ever, made it near impossible to design around, or boxed out units in their point range completely. There is nothing wrong with making good units but the ones I have mentioned here are not good units, they are near broken units that obsolete just about everything else. Just remove "over" from your first sentence and make it powerful and there you go (well in some cases I wouldn't even say these pieces are the most powerful). The game needs powerful pieces, and there needs to be an influx of new powerful pieces so each set has them. The argument could be made that the Republic as a faction may be too powerful (they were half of the top 8 at Gencon, with 3 different styles and the final was all Republic) but I don't think any of these pieces are broken. They may not be fun to play against (thus they are NPEs) but they are competitive and that what this games needs, a variety of competitive pieces. To stay focused on topic, I think Satele is a great piece, but even with all of her tricks, she still only has 100 HP and an average defense at best. So yeah, should could conceivably stay alive with luck, but imo she has just the right amount of fps to make her worthwhile and competitive.
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Rank: Rancor Groups: Member
Joined: 12/25/2009 Posts: 33
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@Jedi Master: You think Anakin SL is broken? Really? He looks nice on paper, but having played him i can say that he is far from broken in real life. Making a competitive squad with peices which need him, in New Republic, is far from easy. Also i think the BX combo is copping a little too much heat. Dedicated squads are far from perfect as you have to predict what the opponent is going to do, and move all your peices at the start of the round. What harm are they going to have to the meta? If anything energy sheild is going to promote fun play as people charge their peices to avoid it, in rather than sneaking around shooting each other. Putting a single energy sheild into another separatist squad can be painful for the opponent, but really the separatists needed some sort of a boost as they haven't got much so far in the V-sets. Myself, I take my hat off to the designers. Certainly there are mistakes and lessons learned, but to my mind there hasn't so far been a peice made that has completely dominated and needed banning. To that accord I reckon they've done a great job.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
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BHC?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 8/9/2009 Posts: 1,935
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the Bounty Hunter Challenge pieces Luke Master of the Order and Darth Sidious, Sith Mastermind
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009 Posts: 2,240 Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
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billiv15 wrote:I took a completely WotC squad (never even used a V-set reinforcement) and took it to 2nd at Gencon. And that was with a total of 3 tournaments played between Gencon 2011 and Gencon 2012 that I played in. Yes, but that is you. Were there any other WotC only squads there?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Hey Don, is there any non-facebook place we can get a clean print of BHC?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 832
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You're asking the wrong guy. Daniel? Trevor? Les? David?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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juice man wrote:billiv15 wrote:I took a completely WotC squad (never even used a V-set reinforcement) and took it to 2nd at Gencon. And that was with a total of 3 tournaments played between Gencon 2011 and Gencon 2012 that I played in. Yes, but that is you. Were there any other WotC only squads there? So what?
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