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fingersandteeth wrote:Sithborg wrote:
Take 05. Do you know what was played? Geonosis Arena. It was a very nasty set up. R2 towing Boba, shooting for a quick kill, then locking doors. You could never get to Boba.
That was 07. I know because 07 was my first sat tourney where Dr Divot won with Geonosis, i got married 08 so missed Gen Con and 09 was the last 150 championship. Your right. Because he used Boba, BH.
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@Mando...yes, so far. There may come a time when the OR will have to be given pretty bad pieces or become too powerful as a result of Bastila.
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markedman247 wrote:Powercreep? Funny, that's my nickname for VP Joseph Biden. Hey! Delaware pride, man! I kind of agree with you though...I mean, I agree with him politically, but the guy just acts, I don't know, wierd.
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fingersandteeth wrote:Revan is the piece that makes the sith competitive, i don't see how you can say he was unnecessary. That was a typo in my post. I didn't mean to say the Revan was unnessesary for the faction. Indeed, as you say, he is the one that makes the Sith good and I do like him a lot.
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ok, then we are in agreement because i agree with the rest of your post.
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I wanted to quantify it some more:
I tracked down the results for every year from 2007 to 2012, and added them. As another measure of power creep, I looked at the proportion of pieces used from the current year and the previous year, vs the proportion of sets the current year and previous year represented.
2007: 83% of the pieces used were released from 2006-2007, while 43% of the sets then available were released from 2006-GenCon 2007. Difference 40%.
2008: 72% of the pieces used were released from 2007-2008, while 33% of the sets then available were released from 2007-GenCon 2008. Difference 39%.
2009: 66% of the pieces used were released from 2008-2009, while 38% of the sets then available were released from 2008-GenCon 2009. Difference 28%.
2010: 27% of the pieces used were released from 2009-2010, while 31% of the sets then available were released from 2009-GenCon 2010. Difference -4%.
2011: 13% of the pieces used were released from 2010-2011, while 18% of the sets then available were released from 2010-GenCon 2011. Difference -5%.
2012: 30% of the pieces used were released from 2011-2012, while 11% of the sets then available were released from 2011-GenCon 2012. Difference 19%.
So it looks like this:
2007: 40% more pieces used from recent years than expected.
2008: 39% more...
2009: 28% more...
2010: 4% less...
2011: 5% less...
2012: 19% more...
So according to these numbers there was rampant power creep up to 2008, then a levelling out from 2009 through to Destiny of the Force, then arguably a bit of a creep from Renegades and Vengeance. But I think 19% is acceptable as people generally want to try new stuff, and there's clearly a higher concentration of good pieces in the v-sets - these are both reasons why it's not simply a raising of the ceiling of power levels. It's nowhere near the power-creep from Wizards up to 2008.
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And most used pieces in the GenCon Top 8 from 2007-2012:
General Dodonna: 18
Princess Leia: 17
R2-D2, Astromech Droid:13
Jedi Weapon Master: 12*
General Rieekan: 9
Mas Amedda: 9
Yoda on Kybuck: 8
Luke's Snowspeeder: 7
Captain Panaka: 7
Han Solo, Smuggler: 7
General Skywalker: 6
Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler: 6
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Spirit: 6
Jedi Battlemaster: 5*
Han Solo, Scoundrel: 5
Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter: 5
Elite Rebel Commando: 5*
Han Solo, Galactic Hero: 5
Mara Jade, Jedi: 4
General Crix Madine: 4
Ganner Rhysode: 4
IG-Lancer: 4*
*Non-uniques that cost more than about 15 points are counted multiple times if they're used multiple times in a squad. I may have overlooked multiples of some non-uniques depending on how lists were presented.
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Rebels and republic sure were successful
Not one DarkSider there.
You kinda wanna see Vader in there somewhere at least.
Lancer doesn't make it in.
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Lancer should be on the list if 4 is the cut-off. I used 2 each year I made the top 8 for a total of 4 of them, unless I am reading how he is doing this incorrectly.
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urbanjedi wrote:Lancer should be on the list if 4 is the cut-off. I used 2 each year I made the top 8 for a total of 4 of them, unless I am reading how he is doing this incorrectly.
I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me to check, but I probably just called one pair IG-Lancer and one pair Lancer or something. Above list updated. I'm kind of surprised about no Mitt'Thrawn though - he'd be the dark side Unique I'd most expect. Or Whorm. I don't even think four Vaders made it in cumulatively. While there were probably about 15 Lukes; Rebel Commando, Landspeeder, Snowspeeder, Force Spirit, and Loda were all in there I think.
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Power creep is actually the reason my game-group has banned the V-Set. The V-Set has rendered all vanilla teams (except the most cheesiest, of course) worthless in casual gameplay.
It's a sad but unfortunate truth. I was expecting a lot of great things from the V-Set, but we only found frustration.
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Darth_Reignir wrote:Power creep is actually the reason my game-group has banned the V-Set. The V-Set has rendered all vanilla teams (except the most cheesiest, of course) worthless in casual gameplay.
It's a sad but unfortunate truth. I was expecting a lot of great things from the V-Set, but we only found frustration. It's a matter of knowing what pieces to use and when. I wouldn't run Bastila or Jaina+Training Seargent if the other guy has clone troopers.
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Power Creep? More like, POWER LEAP turhurhur...
I've played Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, Warhammer 40k, Heroclix, and Star Wars miniatures; the 1 thing all these games have in coming is the continually gradual scale up of power, with a few bumps of overpowered additions. Writing down what pieces are being used, and in what quantity is an inane endeavor only serving to waste peoples time. There is ALWAYS going to be a core group of pieces/cards that are the cream of the crop. ALWAYS. And there is always a way to take them down, regardless of how amazing it seems to be. I don't know what kind of games the people frantically complaining about power creep have played, but evidently not very many.
I won't bother going into detail with the other games, but for SWM, wotc had their fair share of overpowered pieces, and so does the V-set. The difference is, people who worked for Wizards were PAYED to design, playtest, and make well rounded pieces. V-set designers are average joes, taking their free time to see what works and what doesn't. They don't have the time or man power to test EVERY-SINGLE-COMBINATION to see if it can create something unexpected; things have and will continue to fall through the cracks. But to claim it's unnecessary power creep over all, is pardon to who this offends, is quite possible one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever seen and you should be ashamed to know so little.
If games down introduce anything new or fresh, game gets stale and people quit. There has to be a flow of new, and interesting pieces and by extension GOOD pieces. Not GOWK nonsense, but a solid piece you don't have to cringe to justify to use. This thread has boiled down to a useless back and forth, complaining about literally nothing just for the sake of complaining.
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Except, of course, we still do 1000% more playtesting that WOTC ever did.
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Sithborg wrote:Except, of course, we still do 1000% more playtesting that WOTC ever did. I actually meant to put their playtesting in quotations, to demonstrate how sarcastic I was about their "playtesting" Ah, there we go.
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DarkLordVerjal wrote:Writing down what pieces are being used, and in what quantity is an inane endeavor only serving to waste peoples time. I had a theory that I wanted to test, I did the research, and the numbers backed it up. If you're not interested, that's fine, but it would be nice if you could refrain from calling my thread "inane".
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I'm not going to disagree with what your saying, but you give a lot more credit to the WotC SWM play test group than they deserve. Sets were made in a month then sent to production. The game was definitely not given the attention of MTG.
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R5Don4 wrote:I'm not going to disagree with what your saying, but you give a lot more credit to the WotC SWM play test group than they deserve. Sets were made in a month then sent to production. The game was definitely not given the attention of MTG. Obviously. The Bible isn't given as much attention MTG does. 
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TheHutts wrote:DarkLordVerjal wrote:Writing down what pieces are being used, and in what quantity is an inane endeavor only serving to waste peoples time. I had a theory that I wanted to test, I did the research, and the numbers backed it up. If you're not interested, that's fine, but it would be nice if you could refrain from calling my thread "inane". You gave the same information people already knew, but gave it a aggressive tone to get your point across.
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@ The Hutts. Your posts did not come across as inane or aggressive IMHO
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