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TheHutts wrote:The Lord Krayt/Revan one - just no idea how this plays, and how Revan and Krayt interact.
I'm intrigued by this one, the only way I can imagine it works is win Init, Revan moves his crazy strike distance, hits someone, swaps himself with Krayt, Krayt triples someone and transfers away leaving no one to retaliate against. It sounds fun if that is indeed how it works.
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And I guess the other thing that's somewhat confusing is that the three most successful squad types in Regionals this year have arguably been:
- Mando the Vindicated + Kelborn + Scouts
- Imperial Stealth + Blue (often with Morrigan Corde)
- Sith squads based around new Caedus
All three did well at Regionals, and made the top 6 at NZ Championships, so it was weird to see them all shut out of the Top 8 at GenCon. Did they get run at all?
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TheHutts wrote:And I guess the other thing that's somewhat confusing is that the three most successful squad types in Regionals this year have arguably been:
- Mando the Vindicated + Kelborn + Scouts
- Imperial Stealth + Blue (often with Morrigan Corde)
- Sith squads based around new Caedus
All three did well at Regionals, and made the top 6 at NZ Championships, so it was weird to see them all shut out of the Top 8 at GenCon. Did they get run at all? All 3 were present and run by at least one solid player. Lou was the most skilled of the 3 I'm thinking of, and he played Caedus/Malgus. The thing is, most of the top 8 has answers to these squads to some degree. Even if it isn't a great matchup for a squad, it will always be at least a game. None of those three squads blow out anything in the top 8, meaning that it comes down to more player skill and luck. I do think there are more good matchups for the top 8 against those three squads than bad, though. I think this shows that regionals inform GenCon, but that just means that people play things that can beat the big regional squads as opposed to just playing those squads. It's about analyzing the meta and staying one step ahead.
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TheHutts wrote:I think the top 8 looks strong - the Kyle squad has won a Regional, Naboo have done well previously, Lancer/Poggles has won a bunch of regionals previously, the Rebel ones an update of past Rebel successes, Thrawn + options seems good - but there are a couple of squads where I'm really interested to read play reports to see how they functioned. Namely:
The Thon squad - I think the Thon/Senator combo is cool, and giving Bastila the extra force point is cool - but it still seems just a little too tight in a 200 point squad. It's the 10 activations and lack of tech that I find confusing - seems like to me like it would be a great 225 point squad. But 2nd after Swiss meant it obviously worked.
The Lord Krayt/Revan one - just no idea how this plays, and how Revan and Krayt interact.
I'm also interested to see what placed just outside the top 8. Krayt/Revan looks like the ultimate hit & run squad. Stretch out the activations as far as you can with Krayt. Probably still get out-activated, but then at the end run Revan as far as you can (18). Start of the round, win init and give it to your opponent. Then your first phase, run Revan 12 to assault followed by swap with Krayt. Krayt TEs out, killing his own ugnaught and leaving nothing behind. That's 30 squares away, dealing up to 150dmg to an unactivated enemy, or 180dmg with Krayt's Sith Rage. But it does depend on Revan hiding well enough to survive any enemy end-of-round shots after running forward 18 squares. Just my guess on how it would run.
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TheHutts wrote:And I guess the other thing that's somewhat confusing is that the three most successful squad types in Regionals this year have arguably been:
- Mando the Vindicated + Kelborn + Scouts
- Imperial Stealth + Blue (often with Morrigan Corde)
- Sith squads based around new Caedus
All three did well at Regionals, and made the top 6 at NZ Championships, so it was weird to see them all shut out of the Top 8 at GenCon. Did they get run at all? I faced two of three above in swiss (Caedus & Mando/Kelborn) and defeated both with my pilots. Also I believe a Cad/Morrigan Imp build went 1-3, so they were out there.
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DARPH NADER wrote:TheHutts wrote:And I guess the other thing that's somewhat confusing is that the three most successful squad types in Regionals this year have arguably been:
- Mando the Vindicated + Kelborn + Scouts
- Imperial Stealth + Blue (often with Morrigan Corde)
- Sith squads based around new Caedus
All three did well at Regionals, and made the top 6 at NZ Championships, so it was weird to see them all shut out of the Top 8 at GenCon. Did they get run at all? I faced two of three above in swiss (Caedus & Mando/Kelborn) and defeated both with my pilots. Also I believe a Cad/Morrigan Imp build went 1-3, so they were out there. Wow, how did you defeat Mando/Kelborn? Did the squad have MtV? That matchup seems about as close to an auto-loss as I can imagine for your squad. Either that or OR/ABM.
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thereisnotry wrote:DARPH NADER wrote:TheHutts wrote:And I guess the other thing that's somewhat confusing is that the three most successful squad types in Regionals this year have arguably been:
- Mando the Vindicated + Kelborn + Scouts
- Imperial Stealth + Blue (often with Morrigan Corde)
- Sith squads based around new Caedus
All three did well at Regionals, and made the top 6 at NZ Championships, so it was weird to see them all shut out of the Top 8 at GenCon. Did they get run at all? I faced two of three above in swiss (Caedus & Mando/Kelborn) and defeated both with my pilots. Also I believe a Cad/Morrigan Imp build went 1-3, so they were out there. Wow, how did you defeat Mando/Kelborn? Did the squad have MtV? That matchup seems about as close to an auto-loss as I can imagine for your squad. Either that or OR/ABM. I was able to stay just one square clear of MtV's disruptive to skrag two Scouts, that was the key. The pilots are 2-0 against MtV in competitive play back to FrostyCon. OR does present a much more difficult challenge but not insurmountable one with Bravado and Deceptive still being valid counters to ABM, however patience is the key. The pilots acquitted themselve marvelously as I beat Ricky in a close one ( which I believe was his only loss on the day), Mel's Mandos, Jake's Bad G.A.S. Caedus and Graham's Poggle IG Lancer squad. All of which were incredible tight and tense matches. My only loss was to Tim in the fifth round, werein I played far too aggressively and the bombs did their trick.
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Echo24 wrote:DARPH NADER wrote:Sithborg wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:I agree with that. But still when people are winning games in the gencon playoffs 18-14.... it raises many questions lol, I will wait til play reports and full 24 squads lists are posted tho. :) And calling this year's squads a bunch of random junk is the height of ignorance. You weren't there. You didn't see these squads played. Yes, the championship was a bit small. But this is where we are at the game now. And these 24 players are the best and most devoted to the game. So, while you might not like these squads. They were proven through 5 rounds. You want to be proven "right" beyond all doubt, start showing up. +1 Another +1. Just because the top 8 consists of 8 squads that don't appear in your very, very narrow local meta doesn't mean they're junk. If you don't see some of the brilliance in squad design in things like Professor Luke's Art Class and Barney and Friends, it doesn't mean that the players there are bad or playing junk, it means that there are things about this game that you don't understand. It's insulting to everyone who made the commitment to show up to talk trash about them when you didn't. Scott's right to call it the height of ignorance, but it's also the height of arrogance. Hmmm.... I never said the players weren't the best or anything, but since you brought it up not me here you go... Was bill there... nope, was thereisnotry there..... nope.... did weeks play in championship..... nope, so to say that these are the top 24 players and most dedicated to the game has no actual bearing in your argument... I don't say the squads are junk because of my local meta, I say they are junk because of past results. There is no arguing that THON HAD HIS OWN THREAD about how he sucks/is not competitive, created by weeks, and nothing that is in the squad that made top 8 didn't exist when the thread was posted.... Lord Krayt is another one, that Daniel, you yourself have said was made to be a fun piece not a top tier piece. All these people talking meta....... it hilarious. THERE IS NO META! that is my point, I couldn't care less personally, I have to many life obligations to make it to these tournaments and things, I love the game, and I love the V-sets, and have done a lot of work playtesting for the V-sets and will continue to do so (if allowed lol), personally I feel the game is better then it ever was during wizards run, but I call things as I see them, and I am not really alone in this, I won't quote others for things they said in private about this topic but believe me, a lot of people feel the way I do about the top 8 in gencon.... if they want to openly say it tho, that is up to them 
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I was really pleased with the diversity, of not only the squads in the top 8, but all of them. Now, you may call that random junk, but I think it points out to a great leveling of the playing field. There were no copycat squads.
And really, you have to look at who ran which squad. Anyone who followed Ben, would know that he has always done well with BIG Sith with low activations.
Honestly, there was really one issue with the squads this year. But I do feel that they will be addressed next year.
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Sithborg wrote:I was really pleased with the diversity, of not only the squads in the top 8, but all of them. Now, you may call that random junk, but I think it points out to a great leveling of the playing field. There were no copycat squads.
And really, you have to look at who ran which squad. Anyone who followed Ben, would know that he has always done well with BIG Sith with low activations.
Honestly, there was really one issue with the squads this year. But I do feel that they will be addressed next year. Actually, I think there were two issues.
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I see one point mainly with the game itself. There were some time issues in setting up and pairing, but I think next year will have a lot of streamlining. I've had plenty of conversations about how next year will be run.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Sithborg wrote:I was really pleased with the diversity, of not only the squads in the top 8, but all of them. Now, you may call that random junk, but I think it points out to a great leveling of the playing field. There were no copycat squads.
And really, you have to look at who ran which squad. Anyone who followed Ben, would know that he has always done well with BIG Sith with low activations.
Honestly, there was really one issue with the squads this year. But I do feel that they will be addressed next year. Actually, I think there were two issues. what were they?
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I forgot one more thing. Ben Guins is a very good player who isn't well known outside of the Michigan group. He's played big Sith squads with crazy small activations for years. Since the original Exar was released. He used to run Exar and Bane. It works for him. I wouldn't discount Big Sith as a weak squad because a big part of the success of a squad is the player who runs it. People have said this about his sith squads for years and yet he always does well with them when he gets to play in a big tournament.
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Yeah, Ben's squad is unlikely to work for anyone else except Ben.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Hmmm.... I never said the players weren't the best or anything, but since you brought it up not me here you go... Was bill there... nope, was thereisnotry there..... nope.... did weeks play in championship..... nope, so to say that these
Considering I've played exactly 3 tournaments in the last 2 years total, I hardly qualify. Don't try to discount the group that played because you simply don't want it to be true. This was an excellent group of players. I couldn't be there this year, but I doubt I'd have finished in the top 8 anyway.
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billiv15 wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:
Hmmm.... I never said the players weren't the best or anything, but since you brought it up not me here you go... Was bill there... nope, was thereisnotry there..... nope.... did weeks play in championship..... nope, so to say that these
Considering I've played exactly 3 tournaments in the last 2 years total, I hardly qualify. Don't try to discount the group that played because you simply don't want it to be true. This was an excellent group of players. I couldn't be there this year, but I doubt I'd have finished in the top 8 anyway. Highly doubt that would matter seeing as how you took an entirely wizards squad to finals last year I believe you would of bad no problems. I do stand by my post tho between the three of you i mentioned it may and most likely would of been a completely different outcom
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Deaths_Baine wrote:billiv15 wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:
Hmmm.... I never said the players weren't the best or anything, but since you brought it up not me here you go... Was bill there... nope, was thereisnotry there..... nope.... did weeks play in championship..... nope, so to say that these
Considering I've played exactly 3 tournaments in the last 2 years total, I hardly qualify. Don't try to discount the group that played because you simply don't want it to be true. This was an excellent group of players. I couldn't be there this year, but I doubt I'd have finished in the top 8 anyway. Highly doubt that would matter seeing as how you took an entirely wizards squad to finals last year I believe you would of bad no problems. I do stand by my post tho between the three of you i mentioned it may and most likely would of been a completely different outcom I doubt anyone would dispute that Bill is one of the best players in the history of the game. Personally, I'd say he's probably THE best player in the history of the game, since he has made the Top 8 in the Championships every single year that he's played, and he's been all the way to the finals 3 times...nobody else can claim those accomplishments. However, I think what he's saying is that he's so far out of practice (and presumably not quite up on the tactics of the top squads either), and so he might not have been able to perform up to his capacity this year.
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thereisnotry wrote:
However, I think what he's saying is that he's so far out of practice (and presumably not quite up on the tactics of the top squads either), and so he might not have been able to perform up to his capacity this year.
Yep, this. I don't think everyone realizes how important that next level preparation really is.
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billiv15 wrote:thereisnotry wrote:
However, I think what he's saying is that he's so far out of practice (and presumably not quite up on the tactics of the top squads either), and so he might not have been able to perform up to his capacity this year.
Yep, this. I don't think everyone realizes how important that next level preparation really is. Agreed. It's one thing to know your squad...it's another thing to know your opponent's squad. Both are necessary if you're going to do well against skilled opponents.
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billiv15 wrote:thereisnotry wrote:
However, I think what he's saying is that he's so far out of practice (and presumably not quite up on the tactics of the top squads either), and so he might not have been able to perform up to his capacity this year.
Yep, this. I don't think everyone realizes how important that next level preparation really is. This is exactly why I made top 8 this year. I created a good squad and learned what to do with it. Bryan was the same way...I played against him and saw him make adjustments when faced with entirely new situations.
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