4 rounds and the game would be effectively over. It does not take me at least 2 rounds to get to you.

"Are you kidding yourself" is what I believe you meant to say here. We are not texting each other here. And to answer, no I am not.

First, how am I being "dependent"? And second, you aren't going to kill either one unless I let you (and yes, there are reasons I would let you in a given game).

Ah, now I see the light. Clearly I am ignorant of how to count spaces, how to place my guys properly, how to use tow cable, when to move away, when to use GMA, etc. Oh wait, no I'm not. You aren't going to get both of those off on Dash or Rex unless I royally screw up. And in general, I don't royally screw up too often.

Ooh and your mother is so fat, when she sits around the house, she sits "around" the house. Oh were we not trading insults? My bad. There is no morality attached to playing or not playing any legal piece in the game. A good player can run GOWK, a bad player can run GOWK. I think it's safe to say, that I am not a ,"sissy who dont really know how to play" so that's really a pretty stupid statement for you to make.

No, where did you get that idea? You started a thread about GOWK, and then are confused about why we are discussing GOWK? That's pretty funny.

Um so?

It would by me.

Double, twin, Greater mobile, activation advantage, and R2 tow cable all come to mind. Then there is the human factor, such as knowing the figures, knowing placement, knowing when to act, where to move, how to set you up, how to block you, using doors, terrain and figure rotation properly. That's more than enough defense.

I am fairly certain that I wouldn't. You are welcome to hop on Vassal and prove me wrong.

Alright, take it easy on the personal attacks, guys. So help me, I'll turn this around and go home...

This is a good discussion, but there's a line between arguing a point and attacking a person that is starting to be crossed.

I'm going to ignore the personal attack remarks in awesome's last post....but for the sake of the discussion, that's not the way to make anyone else respect your thoughts any better. It actually makes you look less credible.

Anyways...



LOL, I see you're from Lamar, so I'm guessing maybe you play with Dean's group. Let me guess, the times it got run at your LGS, Dean wasn't running it, was he? This is where you have to recognize the difference between the strength of the squad, and the strength of the player. If there's a big enough difference in skill level, it's a piece of cake to beat GOWK, because you are able to out-play the GOWK player. In that sense, you're not beating GOWK, you're beating the player. Big difference.

If you take the player skill out of the equation, or assume that both opponent's are of equal skill level, then it basically comes down to the math, or to the basic game mechanics like counting squares, targeting, etc. If you just consider those factors, it's much easier to see the conclusions we draw.



So...Sith are not one of the 'top tier' squads, but GOWK is....so that means Sith could stand a chance against it? OK, so maybe the GOWK squad wouldn't "mop up" against the DS/DP combo (which, I still agree with billi15, that GOWK would mop up, but I'm willing to think otherwise for discussion sake). In order to claim that something is "anti-GOWK" it has to be able to compete with GOWK with consistency. That's what we're arguing here. Yes, fluke games are going to happen where a Sith player beats the GOWK player. Yes, matchups will happen where the Sith player is a much higher skill level. But that doesn't prove that the squad is better, it just reinforces the fact that the player is better.

It seems to me like you are still not grasping that difference, and that perhaps your experience with GOWK is severely skewed because the difference in player skill was so large whenever you've seen GOWK played.

Get on Vassal, watch some games, play some games against people who know are top players. You'll see it doesn't work the way you think it will.



And AGAIN, I will say, that Rex and Dash have more than enough in their arsenal to keep them from getting hit that way. Just about any Sith squad you come up with that features BOTH Plagueis and Sidious...any Republic build will out-activate you. So, you will struggle to ever get close enough to use Lightning or Corruption on Rex/Dash. And I will mention this AGAIN as well. You won't be able to use Lightning on Rex/Dash because a smart Republic player will put pieces like Ugnaughts, Mouse Droids, or heck, even GOWK, in the way to force you to target him instead. It DOES NOT MATTER how fragile Rex or Dash are or how easy it is to kill them. Plagueis and Sidious do not have the tools necessary to kill Rex/Dash consistently. Now, maybe if Sidious had Master Speed so that he could move 12 and still Lightning it might be tougher to defend against, but that's not how it is. Even if it was, it would just require some higher square counting on the part of the Republic player.



Sure, so have I. But it's either been against people of vastly lower skill (and where I still almost lost in 1 or 2 of those, lol), or I've been playing either the Vong or B&B squads that have been fairly well proven to be semi-decent counters to GOWK. Just because you beat X player means jack squat. I could give GOWK to my cat and play a game against him and say that I beat him, but it means nothing.

@Awesome,

I will be glad to play against you using Gowk. I really dont mind at all. We can play whatever point level you like. Bring your squad you can proxy in your JA pieces and I will proxy in any JA pieces I want. I can do this this week if you would like. We can record the game or whatever doesnt matter to me.

Well since I am the SWM DCI Cotent Manager I guess I can answer this one as it really is my baby or problem.

The Elite AT-AT Driver will be addressed in the upcoming Floor Rules Update slated for release on July 1 2009

Well the problem with your slant is the game is not a one on one game. This is a squad based game. Always has and always will. The whole reason Gowk is a problem is he was playtested in a one on one fashion. He was playtested and costed based on how he performed against Dooku of Serrano. One on one Gowk is not very good against Dooku. But that is a flaw in playtesting. Now you are asking us to repeat that mistake and just consider him in a one on one basis.

Well that does not fit the game.

But let's do that. Let's consider them in a one on one game. I am going to use Gowk to run around to like crazy and collect gambit and stay to far away for you to ever get the corruption off on me. Man that sounds like freeze tag more than a tactical game.

Quite simply a Gowk squad would own your Sith squad.

Just because it works at Lamar does not translate to good.

I remember running an uggie bomb squad there once and beating everyone. I dont think we will see that winning any big events anytime soon. I can remember a time I ran all melee at Lamar and won walking away without a loss.

You are basing what you think is strong based on your performance against players that you know beforehand what they are going to do. That does not make pieces powerful. It means either you are better than them or they are incompetent.

I also think at times you have had some misconceptions on how certain portions of the game work. Like stacking spotter 20 dmg.

That venue has always struggled with targetting. Most of that is not your fault but the fault of Daniel coming to play occasionally. When he is there he uses RPG targetting rules. He also uses RPG rules when determining defense as he tries to give a bonus for his character being engaged in melee combat (which is an RPG rule not swm)

@dnemiller I dont think I played against you uggie bomb squad, actually I dont really think we played all that much before you left,

that is kind of strange though that one on one is what they tested GOWK for, do they do that for every piece?

I only did that spotter thing once, and about a month after is when I realized you couldnt do that

and how would it work at Lamar if Plagueis isnt even out yet?

I think I would probably prefer 2-3 sith lords over Darth P. Only cool thing is that fc4 could kill rex or dash in one shot if they fail the save.

Lightning also helps put down r2 and even fc3 has no effect on r2 because he is a droid.

Let's put this whole GOWK-Plaguelis argument and billiv-awesome war to an end:

Plaguelis isn't the answer to beating General Obi-Wan Kenobi

I think that we have enough evidence to prove that on this thread. Plaguelis may be able to take GOWK alone, but with support, it isn't even a contest.

Thread closed.

Do I really think that this was a war? I just put it that way because I couldn't think of any better phrasing. Take it with a grain of salt.