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swinefeld wrote:I stand by how I called it, unless Jim (and the other designers) see a need to revise Large Transport.
There is virtually no way for an enemy to affect transported characters outside of non-targeting boardwide effects. Jim wanted a simple transport that transported characters unscathed without a lot of funny business. I hope that's what we gave him.
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DarkDracul wrote:swinefeld wrote:I stand by how I called it, unless Jim (and the other designers) see a need to revise Large Transport.
There is virtually no way for an enemy to affect transported characters outside of non-targeting boardwide effects. Jim wanted a simple transport that transported characters unscathed without a lot of funny business. I hope that's what we gave him. You did. I'm just confused now as to how we can activate characters not in play.
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Darth_Jim wrote:DarkDracul wrote:swinefeld wrote:I stand by how I called it, unless Jim (and the other designers) see a need to revise Large Transport.
There is virtually no way for an enemy to affect transported characters outside of non-targeting boardwide effects. Jim wanted a simple transport that transported characters unscathed without a lot of funny business. I hope that's what we gave him. You did. I'm just confused now as to how we can activate characters not in play. Because THEY decided this rule was ok to over look. No big deal right?
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I don't understand any "rules nightmare" with the transported pieces not being on the board. I assumed they didn't exist for any game stuff. When my skiff was destroyed in the fist game Darth Bane would have had 3 extra force. WOW! Could have been a major game changer. (So could getting off before my first activation - but that one is on me)
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one more thing: Jim's intent was to allow any number of transported pieces leave the Skiff. as it is now it is either all or nothing  maybe the Balance Committee can look into this. (oh no! now I have an agenda as well! am I/it important enough for it to matter?)
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Darth_Jim wrote:DarkDracul wrote:swinefeld wrote:I stand by how I called it, unless Jim (and the other designers) see a need to revise Large Transport.
There is virtually no way for an enemy to affect transported characters outside of non-targeting boardwide effects. Jim wanted a simple transport that transported characters unscathed without a lot of funny business. I hope that's what we gave him. You did. I'm just confused now as to how we can activate characters not in play. The same way you do with Skiff, Troop Cart, Mount etc. :)
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Maybe a glossary entry to clarify characters on B Skiff can activate and gain Force Points. Just by reading the card it seems they can't/don't.
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jak wrote: (oh no! now I have an agenda as well! am I/it important enough for it to matter?) well to answer your question... no 
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Deaths_Baine wrote:jak wrote: (oh no! now I have an agenda as well! am I/it important enough for it to matter?) well to answer your question... no So a piece should not work as intended.  are you serious, or chasin' the heroin dragon again?
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Force Renewal shouldn't happen while off the board/on the Skiff.
if it not a force ability, what is it?
I sure the intent was NO force activity while off the board/on the Skiff.
? shouldn't Jim be answering these questions?
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jak wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:jak wrote: (oh no! now I have an agenda as well! am I/it important enough for it to matter?) well to answer your question... no So a piece should not work as intended. are you serious, or chasin' the heroin dragon again? actually I just wanted to laugh, and my post made me laugh...
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jak wrote:Force Renewal shouldn't happen while off the board/on the Skiff.
if it not a force ability, what is it?
I sure the intent was NO force activity while off the board/on the Skiff.
? shouldn't Jim be answering these questions? Force Renewal is a Force Power, not a Force Ability. Glossary for Force Ability: "Some characters have Force powers that remain in effect beyond that character's turn. These are called Force abilities. A Force ability remains active for the designated time. Force abilities cannot be cancelled unless the character is defeated, or at the moment the ability is activated (if a character with a Force canceling power like Force Absorb or Force Defense is within the required range at the time of activation). Force abilities that don't last until the end of the skirmish are negated prematurely if the character using it rolls a save, spends Force points, makes an attack, or is dealt damage. The ability immediately ends if the character joins an opponent's squad. Characters with Force Immunity ignore Force abilities."
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jak wrote:Force Renewal shouldn't happen while off the board/on the Skiff.
if it not a force ability, what is it?
I sure the intent was NO force activity while off the board/on the Skiff.
? shouldn't Jim be answering these questions? Can you activate and take a turn while on a troop cart? Yes. If you have renewal, you get a FP as soon as you activate. Nothing in the card text says characters don't activate. Also, I'm quite certain he wanted to allow FPRR for the defeat save, and the character is still off the board when that happens, so... If Jim wants it to work differently than what I've laid out above, I'm all ears, and will be happy to issue errata as needed.
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logic based on the Skiff being a Troop cart is flawed. It is not. It is a new piece, that's sole purpose is as a movement breaker.
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I guess I assumed that, being off of the board, characters couldn't activate. The original skiff was so lame with its save 11 for passengers I never ran it, so never realized characters activate. (This was part of the reason for choosing the skiff as my design piece, because it has a way cool sculpt but never was being used.) So...this confusion regarding activations is entirely my fault.
I think that all transports should abide by the same rule regarding activations. Should the Balance Committee look at changing all transports in this regard?
Again, sorry for creating confusion here.
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Darth_Jim wrote:I guess I assumed that, being off of the board, characters couldn't activate. The original skiff was so lame with its save 11 for passengers I never ran it, so never realized characters activate. (This was part of the reason for choosing the skiff as my design piece, because it has a way cool sculpt but never was being used.) So...this confusion regarding activations is entirely my fault.
I think that all transports should abide by the same rule regarding activations. Should the Balance Committee look at changing all transports in this regard?
Again, sorry for creating confusion here. Jim, they all have up to this point, so I've just interpreted the card text on your piece as it reads. I wasn't available for most of set 12. Perhaps some of the issues could have been addressed more thoroughly had I been able to follow development closely. My apologies for that, but life is what it is... If some simple tweaks to Large Transport can make your piece work more as you intended it, I'll be happy to work up an errata with you and the rest of the team.  I don't think there are any Balance Committee issues here, but I'll leave that determination to others.
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I am fine leaving it as is, but if the community deems we need to look at it, I'm open to that too. The main abuses I wanted to avoid our design team was able to avoid; I think moving forward clarity is more important than change.
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swinefeld wrote:If some simple tweaks to Large Transport can make your piece work more as you intended it, I'll be happy to work up an errata with you and the rest of the team. YES please!!!!!!!!!!! 
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For my part, I will take the discussion back to design. I'll keep an eye on any further input here.
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Darth_Jim wrote:I guess I assumed that, being off of the board, characters couldn't activate. The main issue if that were the case (as I think TJ pointed out earlier is two fold). 1. The round doesn't end until all characters are activated so how do we know when the round ends? And yes this could be a simple answer of all characters on the board are activated so more of a non-issue but still potentially relevant. For instance if I levitated Atris onto the troop cart (after she had activated and used Meditation, then the Force ability would go forever, as they would never activate. Same holds true for Bastilla and the original skiff 2. If they don't activate, then when your opponent kills said skiff, now they come on with a full crew of unactivated guys to wreck shop with? So now, your opponent doesn't have any incentive to try and kill the skiff (seems bad for minis) as when they do, they get a face full of whatever is on it, because those characters haven't yet activated this round. Darth_Jim wrote: I think that all transports should abide by the same rule regarding activations. I agree 100%
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