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I can Fourth that ^^^
EDIT: Well piss. I can, new page.
I support the banning of See-Threepio.
unless a serious change occurs.
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TimmerB123 wrote:
This isn't really what the balance committee is for. It's not for changing design you don't like.
Unkar hasn't even come out yet. If he starts to dominate the scene, then maybe the conversation can get started.
That won't happen because there will not be a reserves scene with this in the Lobot box. And I'm not sure where else to bring this up then? When design is supposed to be about new interesting flavorful and balanced characters. Unkar is not balanced, he literally broke the game by wiping out a play-style. It would be the same as having a character that removed force immunity from the entire Vong faction, or drains all force users of all force points every round. He's broken and unbalanced by the very fact that he can shut down reserves completely, is rangeless, sitting out of the fight, and then repeat every single round. If this isn't the place to bring up unbalanced characters then I don't know where else is. I'm trying to keep the preview thread focused on that and bring up the issue that this character is.
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Here's my stab at making SWM great again, and to help bring balance to the game; Errata: Add the following to the following 3 commanders ( addition in bold ):
Dodonna, Ozzel, and San HillGeneral Dodonna: You can choose to activate only 1 character in each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) Admiral Ozzel: You activate only 1 character each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) San Hill: You activate only 1 character each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) Let's go balance committee. Please help make SWM great, once and for all!!!!!!!!!!! Boom   ( Mic Dropped )
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Was thinking about it and as much as I like Morrigan, Suppressive Fire is totally ridiculous. I have a squad meant to resist shooters Ani/Obi 85, Shieldbearer, and Baran Do Sage (over 100 points total of the squad) and its foolish that a 31 point piece with a gun can get around everything..evading--damage back possibility. Suppressive Fire needs changed.
Remember, I like her and playing her. I played her last year at GenCon. Just too much..I mean no: DR, Armor saves, evade, bodyguard, defense, Shien, Soresu.....
Just say it out loud and remember she costs 31. She should be 45 minimum
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AceAce wrote:Was thinking about it and as much as I like Morrigan, Suppressive Fire is totally ridiculous. I have a squad meant to resist shooters Ani/Obi 85, Shieldbearer, and Baran Do Sage (over 100 points total of the squad) and its foolish that a 31 point piece with a gun can get around everything..evading--damage back possibility. Suppressive Fire needs changed.
Remember, I like her and playing her. I played her last year at GenCon. Just too much..I mean no: DR, Armor saves, evade, bodyguard, defense, Shien, Soresu.....
Just say it out loud and remember she costs 31. She should be 45 minimum Suppressive Fire doesn't get around the Shield bearer, but you're right that it's ridiculous.
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Balance committee.... It's there even one still?
The game is out of Balance. Act control is by far the most powerful strategy and has been since it came into existence.
Act control needs balancing.
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jen'ari wrote:Balance committee.... It's there even one still?
The game is out of Balance. Act control is by far the most powerful strategy and has been since it came into existence.
Act control needs balancing. Yes, there is a balance committee. There were no complaints or requests last year so we didn't make any announcements. I am paying attention to this thread. Rest assured we will discuss everything brought up here. Any topics receiving multiple complaints will go to a vote.
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Awesome ^
In that case I also vote for Suppressive Fire to be balanced.
If you need reasons I can write them out.
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AceAce wrote:Remember, I like her and playing her. I played her last year at GenCon. Just too much..I mean no: DR, Armor saves, evade, bodyguard, defense, Shien, Soresu.....
You can Bodyguard her damage as well, since the Bodyguard isn't the target. Suppressive Fire doesn't work exactly like Overwhelming Power, which stops damage from being prevented or redirected. Instead, it affects the target's usage of special abilities and Force powers, and on a hit the commander effects they have or are subject to. But I definitely agree that she's way too good, having played her quite a few times.
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Can we get people to do a test run of what a tournament would look like with no act control? Not playing, just x number of players. Creating x number of squads, and see what people come up with, or what it would look like?
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DarkDracul wrote:jen'ari wrote:Balance committee.... It's there even one still?
The game is out of Balance. Act control is by far the most powerful strategy and has been since it came into existence.
Act control needs balancing. Yes, there is a balance committee. There were no complaints or requests last year so we didn't make any announcements. I am paying attention to this thread. Rest assured we will discuss everything brought up here. Any topics receiving multiple complaints will go to a vote. Ok then balance committee. Activation ControlSWM GenCon Championships: Dodonna in 2010, 2013, and 2016. Ozzel in 2015, 2017 (Atmsalad's squad could bring him in), 2018, and 2019. Shmi15, Naarkon, Jen'ari, and myself, have all expressed our displeasure for the state of the meta, specifically in regards to activation control. Please look at all of our complaints, and do what you guys are supposed to do; bring balance to the game. Thank you
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I'll add my vote against any errata or change to how act control works, on the card or as a floor rule.
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:I'll add my vote against any errata or change to how act control works, on the card or as a floor rule. I just can't comprehend how some people are just so dam resistant to change  The results ( championships, etc ) clearly indicate the game is not balanced  I could list about, at least 20 guys, and 1 girl, that I have played this game with since 2004, (most of which have quit the game now), that thought activation control was cheesy, and lacked gamesmanship.
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DarthMaim wrote:I just can't comprehend how some people are just so dam resistant to change The results ( championships, etc ) clearly indicate the game is not balanced I could list about, at least 20 guys, and 1 girl, that I have played this game with since 2004, (most of which have quit the game now), that thought activation control was cheesy, and lacked gamesmanship. I'm resistant to change because I don't agree with significantly changing anything from the WotC era. It makes it harder for people who played during that time to get back into today's game. Besides, it isn't really in the scope of the V-set team's Balance Committee. The purpose of the Balance Committee, as I see it, is primarily to make sure the V-sets are balanced, not to interfere in WotC stuff. The only changes that affect WotC characters that the Balance Committee has made are floor rules, and these are mostly aimed at the V-sets (for example, Reserves not stacking because of Pong Krell, Rapport can't reduce cost below 3 because of Poggle the Lesser, etc). The only floor rule that I know of implemented solely in response to a WotC feature was adding Diminutive to the Mouse Droid, which made sense and isn't a big change like the proposed one would be. I don't want to see any more floor rules, much less errata, that change characters from WotC. It's true that activation control has won a lot of tournaments and a lot of championships. However, there are squads without activation control that can compete at the highest level. At the championships last year, the runner-up was a melee squad without any act control. The NZ Nationals last year were also won by an all-Fringe squad with no act control. I do agree that activation control is a problem and isn't really a positive aspect of the game. However, I'd prefer to see this addressed by the design teams of future V-sets instead of by errata, floor rules and bans. There are designs coming out right now (like the Porgs from V-set 18) that are trying to circumvent the dominance of activation control. I'd like to see this continue.
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One compelling argument for not altering/removing act control is that all the Rebel, Imperial, Sep, and NR pieces have been tested with act control pieces. Taking act control away suddenly is a huge difference - basically it makes all the testing invalid. For example, Rebel pieces tend to be squishy, and would struggle without the big leg up they get from Dodonna. It might well be a positive change, but it's a very, very big change.
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Being resistant to change and compelling arguments about it being a big change have nothing to do with balance though.
There is no argument that act control is out of balance.
The Balance committee has to act when their is no "balance".
So the way that that goes about being done is the question at this point. We have to accept the fact that CHANGE does need to happen.
It can happen in new design, it can happen in an errata, or a ban.
I don't think people care that much as long as a new design actually works and is feasible and is thematic in some way.
The balance team should check the design team and should help PT and let the power pieces and "balancing pieces" come out in 1 year instead of in half a year.
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:DarthMaim wrote:I just can't comprehend how some people are just so dam resistant to change The results ( championships, etc ) clearly indicate the game is not balanced I could list about, at least 20 guys, and 1 girl, that I have played this game with since 2004, (most of which have quit the game now), that thought activation control was cheesy, and lacked gamesmanship. I'm resistant to change because I don't agree with significantly changing anything from the WotC era. It makes it harder for people who played during that time to get back into today's game. Besides, it isn't really in the scope of the V-set team's Balance Committee. The purpose of the Balance Committee, as I see it, is primarily to make sure the V-sets are balanced, not to interfere in WotC stuff. The only changes that affect WotC characters that the Balance Committee has made are floor rules, and these are mostly aimed at the V-sets (for example, Reserves not stacking because of Pong Krell, Rapport can't reduce cost below 3 because of Poggle the Lesser, etc). The only floor rule that I know of implemented solely in response to a WotC feature was adding Diminutive to the Mouse Droid, which made sense and isn't a big change like the proposed one would be. I don't want to see any more floor rules, much less errata, that change characters from WotC. It's true that activation control has won a lot of tournaments and a lot of championships. However, there are squads without activation control that can compete at the highest level. At the championships last year, the runner-up was a melee squad without any act control. The NZ Nationals last year were also won by an all-Fringe squad with no act control. I do agree that activation control is a problem and isn't really a positive aspect of the game. However, I'd prefer to see this addressed by the design teams of future V-sets instead of by errata, floor rules and bans. There are designs coming out right now (like the Porgs from V-set 18) that are trying to circumvent the dominance of activation control. I'd like to see this continue. I'm gonna be totally honest here: people are not really getting back into this game. If you played back in the day and you come back now, almost nothing will be the same. You are going to have to relearn a lot and get to know a lot of new pieces anyway. In 3-4 years of going to regionals, I've played only a handful of WotC pieces, and a lot of my squads now don't have any at all. Now, I play mostly Sith, which were absolute cheeks with WotC, but the point still stands. Old players already can't just walk back in and run the same squads as back in the day. In my opinion, addressing activation control with counter pieces just won't work, for several reasons. First: the opponent has to use the counter piece for it to be effective. It just won't fit in every squad. Second: once activation control is countered, now both players have a dead piece that doesn't do anything. Yay. Third: I swear to God if you people keep giving Lobot more tricks and counters I'm going to vomit. That one isn't really a reason, I just hate Lobot. But for real, making a sub-20 fringe counter is REALLY lazy design. If activation control is a problem and isn't really a positive aspect of the game, then it needs to change. If someone comes back and has enough of a problem with Dodonna being changed that they re-quit, they weren't going to put up with the quirks and mistakes that come with a player-run game. For pity's sake, in my very first regional, in my very first match, barely knowing the game, I played against Naboo deathshots (thanks Bryan) with a spicy NR squad that had the worst of the three Cade Skywalkers as the best piece in it. I still came back because the game is good even with some of the bad parts, but we also need to fix the worst parts. Naboo deathshots got nerfed, Poggle got nerfed, Daala is still really good, mice got changed cause they were causing problems. TL:DR Changing Wotc pieces will not stunt the growth of the game, but not balancing the game might lose the existing playerbase.
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DarthMaim wrote:DarkDracul wrote:jen'ari wrote:Balance committee.... It's there even one still?
The game is out of Balance. Act control is by far the most powerful strategy and has been since it came into existence.
Act control needs balancing. Yes, there is a balance committee. There were no complaints or requests last year so we didn't make any announcements. I am paying attention to this thread. Rest assured we will discuss everything brought up here. Any topics receiving multiple complaints will go to a vote. Ok then balance committee. Activation ControlSWM GenCon Championships: Dodonna in 2010, 2013, and 2016. Ozzel in 2015, 2017 (Atmsalad's squad could bring him in), 2018, and 2019. Shmi15, Naarkon, Jen'ari, and myself, have all expressed our displeasure for the state of the meta, specifically in regards to activation control. Please look at all of our complaints, and do what you guys are supposed to do; bring balance to the game. Thank you Dr Daman wrote: I agree something needs to change, and I believe that something is act control. It's what makes my Thrawn swap squad work, yet I still want to see it gone. I play that squad because I'm very competitive and I know how to play it extremely well to win. I am VERY good with it. But it's got to change. It's not fun to win by destroying your opponent and it's much much worse to lose that way. I've never been in favour of changing WoTC pieces, but I think it might be time to adjust the act control ones. Making them require line-of-sight is the best way IMO to do this. High risk (putting you piece in a vulnerable place), high reward (getting to move and shoot with your pieces with impunity). Kezzamachine wrote: I like all of this. Here are 2 more community members on board with changing activation control ( bringing total to 6 ). This cannot be ignored Balance Committee!
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DarthMaim wrote:Here's my stab at making SWM great again, and to help bring balance to the game; Errata: Add the following to the following 3 commanders ( addition in bold ):
Dodonna, Ozzel, and San HillGeneral Dodonna: You can choose to activate only 1 character in each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) Admiral Ozzel: You activate only 1 character each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) San Hill: You activate only 1 character each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) Let's go balance committee. Please help make SWM great, once and for all!!!!!!!!!!! Boom ( Mic Dropped ) This was my idea a week and a half ago
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Proposed change; Lord Krayt 114 pts Commander Effect You can choose to activate only 1 character in each phase, if this character has line of sight to an enemy character. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.) Change in bold. I would propose we change the cost of Lord Krayt to somewhere in the 70's to 80's, as this change, obviously changes his effectiveness and usage to pretty much blowing the dust off his mini at the bottom of our mini pile 
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