I don't think you can compare SWM to professional golf or any other professional game. The purses are not there to draw out the greatest players in the world to come to GenCon. Now I don't doubt that all those players you mentioned are great players. I'm just saying that there are players out there that are "big fish" that can compete on the national level but don't get the opportunity.

I also took offense at the fact you belittled our LGS. You say you don't realize how your words are taken by others. Either you are oblivious as to how you come off in the forums or you just don't care how you offend people.

Who really gives a crap as far as who is the world's best player? You will either have to only face the players at your LGS week after week or pony up some serious cash to make it to GenCon. Honestly, I don't care about DCI rankings either; at my LGS, we don't even play DCI. GOWK is legal, Korriban and Endor are commonly-played maps, and Gambit is unheard of.

And our LGS likes Superstealth.

Well it seems the original poster wanted some info. Generally if folks dont like a topic they just dont post and dont bother with it.

i could in turn respond with what makes you think I give a crap about what you give a crap about??? kind of redundant though isnt it???

Some people do care about who the best is and the such. Maybe it is because the poster is trying to find out who to try and ask some questions about the game??? Who knows. As far as ponying up cash for Gencon, I find that kind of a lame argument. If you want to go to Gencon you can get there on a shoestring budget. There are tons of people willing to share rooms and help in any way they can. Generally I can tell you that if you cant make to Gencon and live in the mainland US it is because you have not tried that hard.

Bill, you didn't say it outloud but it is implied in the wording. You said Carl was not a national competitor and by basic logic with me saying he is our best player that means you have little respect for the abilities of the players at our LGS. I personally feel our shop has some good players.

I also don't think everyone can get to GenCon even if they want to. I figured it up and it was going to cost us around $500 at a good estimate. For some that is alot of money to shell out. I meet alot of players who are poor college students who would not have any chance of coming up with that kind of money. For those of us like myself that are older and have careers it is easier for us to do that. I also live close enough I can drive in a reasonable amount of time. The group that runs this forum live in Washington state I do believe. That would be more like a vacation for them and would be alot more money. I can see it very hard for some of them to make it to Indiana.

I will just let this drop because as I said in the past few posts I really see a good player measured by more than just winning. To me this game is a community. Everyone I have met personally at the events we travel to have been great. Forum communities lack the personal appeal that a face-to-face has. It's easy to be disconnected from the words that you post. I don't want this to turn into a flame contest.

No, I said that I would have a hard time considering anyone one of the best in the world who only plays locally. It wasn't a specific point towards Carl, he was just the example being brought up by you :)

Quite simply, that goes back to my original point. The best in the world can't just be the best players locally. This is where the golf example works. The best golfer in the world might be a 19 year old college student who works as a caddie somewhere. He maybe even wins every local tournament, but he won't be considered as such until he plays in the PGA and beats the best of the best. His reasons for not doing so can be anything, it matters not.

Same is true here. I understand well that many players can't afford to go to Gencon for a variety of reasons. And if you noticed, I also included in my list, two players who will never get to Gencon in IKillGungans and Gren. If someone wants to prove it, there are other ways they can do so, such as Vassal tournaments for example.

Maybe I need to explain a further point. I wasn't trying to knock Carl or your LGS in this. I was trying to make this point. Even at the strongest LGS' in the country, there are perhaps 2 maybe 3-4 top level players playing. Their other 2-4 games on a given day are not real challenges in most cases. At Gencon, the 80-100 person tournament has at least 20-30 of those caliber players, probably more even. There isn't a comparable event anywhere for SWMs. The closest is when the French and German communities meet up probably. Even most of the regionals had 2-3 players who had high odds of winning. What I was trying to explain is that your original point of passing me in DCI ranking doesn't mean much, when I don't play at an LGS very often. And when I am able to, my competition usually includes Fingersandteeth, JonnyB, MtMagus, Enginner, Tk422(Lou), JamesWys, Ben, TimmerB and others. Just in that list alone are 3 past Gencon winners, 3 Hall of Famers, 4 Regional wins from last year, 40 top 16 Gencon placings, and in the last three years since we did a top 8, 6 top 8 finishes between us. Also, our regional included the winner of yours in Lobostele as well :)

The best of the best in my book are not just the best local players. If that were so, I would have to include a lot more people on my list. To me (again, this is my opinion, doesn't have to be yours), this means the people who have proven it. They don't have to win Gencon, or place high, but that's the best judgment we have. I also look at how someone plays when I play them or watch them play (again not much I can go on for Carl here either, I think we've maybe played once on Vassal?). It isn't just about wins and losses either for me. It's more about what I see them doing and how. What level at which they play and think about the game, and in particular, how they do it against the best competition. A lot of people are capable of playing very well, but not many can do it over and over again in a 7 round Gencon event. Many players can play the game at high levels, but there aren't many who know how to win when their opponent is just as good as they are. These are just some of the things I would look for. I have none of that information for Carl, so as I said before, I cannot put him on that list. But that's just my perspective, and it isn't a slight on Carl or your LGS.

Mickey, let me know if you guys need any help figuring out how to put it together. I am a master of Gencon on the cheap (cost me $400 total, including going out to Hooters every night for dinner and drinks) :)

Now all I need to do is be whipped by Dean and the Dynamic Duo is complete...

i will agree that queen is a great band.
i was just looking from an objective point of view.
and by the way Lobar, youve got 4 years on me, so i apologize for the homework remark.

Bill....I know you and I have had some differences in the past, but I totally understand what you are trying to explain to Mickey. I do not think you meant to insult anyone. I myself am considered the best player at my LGS, and I have a pretty good DCI ranking, but I in no way think my skill is compairable to the top world players. I might hold my own with some, but players like yourself, Deri, and Dean, would woop me consistantly. But one thing I do teach all the players at my store, even if you lose....learn something!! Anyway....I may take you up on your offer for help with Gencon next year. Darth Jim and I are already talking about making the trip together!! I sure hope to meet some of the worlds best players next year!!