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Renegades and Rogues (contains spoilers for V-set 2. Full set list now up) Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 1:16:18 AM
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Weeks wrote:

Brianna can dish out a ton of hurt with her riposte + twin from a czerka or whorm. That's 60 damage non melee ripostes, which is awesome!


I still don't like non-melee lightsabers. Theme-breaking and confusing rule.
Ronson
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 7:50:36 AM
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So what are the stats for Count Dooku? Can we play guess and win again?

Count Dooku, Separatist Leader
Cost: 65
HP 130
Def 21
Att 16
Def 21

Special Abilities
Unique
Melee
Triple
Dualist
Affinity (Characters whose name contains Darth Sidious may be in this squad regardless of faction)
Makashi Style Mastery

Force Powers
Force 1
Master of the Force 2
Riposte
Precision
Force Lightning 3

Commander Effect
Allies with Melee and a Force Rating gain Lightsaber Block
dreadtech
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:28:41 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Weeks wrote:

Brianna can dish out a ton of hurt with her riposte + twin from a czerka or whorm. That's 60 damage non melee ripostes, which is awesome!


I still don't like non-melee lightsabers. Theme-breaking and confusing rule.


No worse than Mouse Droids providing cover. I can live with Brianna stats.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:41:19 AM
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dreadtech wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:

I still don't like non-melee lightsabers. Theme-breaking and confusing rule.


No worse than Mouse Droids providing cover. I can live with Brianna stats.


Yeah, just like needles under the toenails are no worse than needles under the fingernails. BigGrin
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:15:18 AM
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Ronson wrote:
So what are the stats for Count Dooku? Can we play guess and win again?


Since he wasn't spoiled, no. Sorry.
dreadtech
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:53:22 PM
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Was a characters stats given out last night on the SHNN show? or was there no show?
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:54:17 PM
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And now he is, thanks to SHNN, Bill, and jedispyder who posted the full correct wording on Gamers. Smile

20/60
Count Dooku, Separatist Leader
Cost 57
HP 130
DEF 20
ATK +0
DAM 0

Special Abilities
Unique. Draw Fire
Immediate Separatist Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 5, 10, 15, or 20 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of non-Unique Separatist characters to your squad, adjacent to this character, immediately before your first activation of the round)
Turn to the Dark Side (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to 1 target with a Force rating. The target can choose to negate this damage and instead make a save of 11; if the save fails, the target joins this character's squad until the end of the skirmish.)

Force Powers
Force 5
Anticipation (Force 1: Reroll initiative once per round)
Pawn of the Dark Side (Force 1, replaces attacks: sight; 1 non-Unique ally takes an immediate turn, which does not count as one of your 2 activations this phase; at the end of that turn, it takes 10 damage)

Commander Effect
If this character would take damage from an attack, an adjacent follower can take the damage instead.
Whenever an enemy within 6 squares damages this character, one adjacent follower with line of sight to that enemy may make 1 immediate attack against that character. This attack does not use the targeting rules.

dreadtech
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:56:20 PM
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Cool, Thanks.
Just to about go out but will update post 1 tonight.

EDIT
Just looked at him. Big mistake. having two Sep characters that have immediate reserves and two Seps have pawn of the dark side. What were they thinking? Even with the 0 Attack and 0 Damage
komix
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:13:27 PM
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blasted I really don't see any1 playing this Dooku at all;
He's a strange piece, his CE doesn't involve droids, so only alive shooters could "guard" him so that they could use their shots, no renewal which means that he won't pawn too much, and he can only damage characters with force rating; so what's up with him?
He draws fire only to transfer damage to adjacent living follower, which can shoot the attacker.

On the bright side he can drop some reserves (yeah and you can rereoll so that you could really get it)
For that cost I would rather use either Darth Tyranus, Legacy of the Dark Side or Count Dooku from CS.
wannabe mexican
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:47:10 PM
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It costs 93 points to have double pawn in a squad. Add to that Whorm and a BDO and you have barely any points for anything else. It is not that powerful, I played against it and, I would say, pwned it.

That being said, I tested this guy a few times, but feel we used him wrong because I wasn't that impressed with him. Like, he makes sense to me, flavour wise. Dooku surrounded by his minions that are either bodyguarding him or shooting his enemies. I am sure he will be much more impressive when we get more living seps in the coming sets. Those separatist commandos need an upgrade.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 9:54:16 PM
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wannabe mexican wrote:
he makes sense to me, flavour wise.


While His CE may be somewhat flavorful, personally I don't see his stats as being Dooku. Dooku was a saber fighting master, not a heavy force user (except lightning - which this incarnation doesn't have). Overall an interesting take, but disappointing to me.
Ronson
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:49:53 PM
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I have to agree with the others. I really don't like this Dooku. Very, very disappointed. I appreciate the designers trying to be unique and flavorful, but I don't think it should have been done with him. When the community said they wanted a Dooku with a CE this is definitely not what we meant. We wanted something that would boost the already available living characters.

Note: I love the virtual sets and appreciate the hard work put into it.
CerousMutor
Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:59:09 PM
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From everything we've seen, its been good. I like flavorful minis, this one looks clunky but fun to play, he may be easily forgotten. I'll give him a good go, I hope to be surprised.
I suppose you cant hit zingers all the time otherwise they wouldnt be zingers.
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:12:33 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
wannabe mexican wrote:
he makes sense to me, flavour wise.


While His CE may be somewhat flavorful, personally I don't see his stats as being Dooku. Dooku was a saber fighting master, not a heavy force user (except lightning - which this incarnation doesn't have). Overall an interesting take, but disappointing to me.


This is the more public face of Dooku. I think Bill described it best last night. He didn't go around advertising he was a Sith Lord, this is the charasmatic, public face of the Seperatist movement. The one that the Confederacy Senate believes. It is a bold, and creative design move, and I applaud them for that.

And honestly, he isn't going to be making a huge splash. Him and Wat are 99? Could be good for 100, but not real well for the other points. Dooku can bring in some Droids, but it doesn't help a whole lot, since his CE can't be used by Droids.

Double Pawn is interesting, but at 93, not a whole lot of support. I can see it used with a Series 2 and Droidekas, but that is more of a fun squad than anything.

Still, I will enjoy bringing in 5 Muun Guards. 4 pt figs with +6 Atk, and Twin, is awesome.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:30:05 AM
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Sithborg wrote:

This is the more public face of Dooku. I think Bill described it best last night. He didn't go around advertising he was a Sith Lord, this is the charasmatic, public face of the Seperatist movement. The one that the Confederacy Senate believes. It is a bold, and creative design move, and I applaud them for that.


Exactly. The CIS members did not fully know he was a Sith Lord, and they didn't know about Sideous being Palpatine, or even all know about Sideous. The public face was the diplomat Dooku. This is him. I know people wanted a combo of a 49pt Dooku fighter with a CE, but to be honest, making a 55-65pt Dooku with a CE was incredibly lame and didn't help the living part of the faction at all. What you all said you wanted, wouldn't have done anything. This one can do both, he can pawn and bring reserves, so droids can be used, at the same time, you are gonna want living figures to utilize the CE. He works best either with all living figures or with a mix of droids and living. And I can promise you, when you figure out how to use him in squads, he's an amazingly powerful figure - similar to Darth Sideous in that way.

What I said last night, is the image we worked on, was Dooku standing on the platform at Geonosis. He never draws his lightsaber and uses his BGs and army to fight. This is the image of Dooku as a commander. He does not publically use his LS and reveal him being a Sith. So in a sense, a Dooku with all his normal LS fighting abilities and a CE, is not canon. I understand he's weird at first glance, but give him a chance. He's definitely a very powerful mini, and probably only the fact that his reserves are slightly luck based away from being an automatic tier 1 upon release.
Echo24
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:33:09 AM
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Ronson wrote:
I have to agree with the others. I really don't like this Dooku. Very, very disappointed. I appreciate the designers trying to be unique and flavorful, but I don't think it should have been done with him. When the community said they wanted a Dooku with a CE this is definitely not what we meant. We wanted something that would boost the already available living characters.

Note: I love the virtual sets and appreciate the hard work put into it.


I don't think you should speak for "the community" on this issue, because I for one totally disagree with you. We have a number of Dookus who are fighters. But Dooku was a politician first and foremost. That's why they call him "Count". This is one of the most unique and interesting characters in the set, who not only captures the flavor of the character and even demonstrates a particular point in the movies (Coleman Trebor attacking Dooku but getting shot by Jango), but he is also a very fun and interesting piece to play. I don't expect most people to play him well, because he is certainly difficult to play correctly, but if you do it right he can be great.

At this point nay-saying seems like knee-jerk reactions that don't really take into account the character or how this piece will actually play.


Weeks
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:52:26 AM
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I'll tell you what we learned in playtesting. Save your judgement till you see him played by someone else and play him yourself. Dooku is an interesting piece and dropping down droids you didn't start with is awesome. Once you see some more of the droids you'll get a little more excited about him.
Ronson
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 2:09:47 AM
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Echo24 wrote:
Ronson wrote:
I have to agree with the others. I really don't like this Dooku. Very, very disappointed. I appreciate the designers trying to be unique and flavorful, but I don't think it should have been done with him. When the community said they wanted a Dooku with a CE this is definitely not what we meant. We wanted something that would boost the already available living characters.

Note: I love the virtual sets and appreciate the hard work put into it.


I don't think you should speak for "the community" on this issue, because I for one totally disagree with you. We have a number of Dookus who are fighters. But Dooku was a politician first and foremost. That's why they call him "Count". This is one of the most unique and interesting characters in the set, who not only captures the flavor of the character and even demonstrates a particular point in the movies (Coleman Trebor attacking Dooku but getting shot by Jango), but he is also a very fun and interesting piece to play. I don't expect most people to play him well, because he is certainly difficult to play correctly, but if you do it right he can be great.

At this point nay-saying seems like knee-jerk reactions that don't really take into account the character or how this piece will actually play.


You're right. I apologize. My post was my initial reaction. I honestly felt at first that it was a joke. Taking some time to think about him though, I am warming up to the idea. I see how this represents a different side of Dooku. I was disappointed at first because I DID want to see another beat stick Dooku, because I knew the V-Set crew would do such a good job and I feel the others are a little lack-luster. I wanted a Dooku that would help some of the other pieces that I want to be able to play, but are too weak. I see that this Dooku is a good addition to the game even if it isn't want I wanted or expected.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 2:26:36 AM
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Ronson wrote:

You're right. I apologize. My post was my initial reaction. I honestly felt at first that it was a joke. Taking some time to think about him though, I am warming up to the idea. I see how this represents a different side of Dooku. I was disappointed at first because I DID want to see another beat stick Dooku, because I knew the V-Set crew would do such a good job and I feel the others are a little lack-luster. I wanted a Dooku that would help some of the other pieces that I want to be able to play, but are too weak. I see that this Dooku is a good addition to the game even if it isn't want I wanted or expected.


Not necessary, we fully expected reactions like this, and even considered that a significant part of the community would initially see it this way. Odds are we will eventually do a new Beatstick Tyranus (Seranno could use a revamp for example, considering the nerfing he got by dealing with SSM in competitive play). Probably not in the near future, but I'm sure eventually. Anyway, we wanted this one to be different than other Dookus, and when we decided on the image of him at Geonosis balcony, it started coming together. As for those who don't think he's competitive, I suggest patience. At least in play testing, he was a very strong piece. It might take a while for people to figure him out, but he's actually quite a bit better than Kazdan. Part of it is some of the other pieces in RaR and BoT, but another part is that his squads don't look like normal competitive Sep squads. They end up quite a bit different, and really do add something completely new - something a 65ish Beat/Commander wouldn't have been able to do.
gwek
Posted: Friday, June 10, 2011 2:44:37 AM
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On one hand: I would really like to get a "regular" Dooku with a commander effect someday and the potential double dose of Immediate Reserves (although expensive) makes me a little nervous...

On the other hand: I really like this guy. I applaud the V-Set folk for coming up with a character who captures the flavor of Dooku just as well as--but in a wholly different way than--existing versions. He's sort of like a Sep analog to Palpatine. Heck, for that matter, while I can understand why people might be put off by him, if we can have such radically different versions of Sidious/Palpatine in the Imperial faction, why not Dooku in the Seps?

Another entertaining piece, and another "rogue" Jedi for the set. Nice stuff. I look forward to hearing reports of how he works in play.
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