It also helps for the philosophy of "The One True Sith." :)

Princess Leia?

The worst thing about the OR Senator is that it's vulnerable to Momaw Nadon - you can keep it back and use Mouse Droids, but then the Mouse Droids are vulnerable to Momaw Nadon too. Not that it's a problem - it's a balancing factor for an otherwise very efficient piece.

Exactly, and while she has more HP she lacks Diplomat.


@dreadtech Too heavy on melee? Let's look at Tier 1 OR pieces....

Jaq- Fantastic shooter. Not overcosted, either.
Satele- Melee, true, but certainly not overcosted.
Carth- Good shooter when supported, admittedly low defensive capability. Suprise Move helps.
Juggernauts w/ Bao-Dur- Shooter squad, plus Bao-Dur helps fragility.
Mira (she's a bit iffy insofar as Tier 1 is concerned but I've had considerable success using her in the past as have others, and there is no real reason she can't be competitive with Bastila and the OR Senator. Discount her if you want, though)- Shooter.
Vandar- Excellent range 6 shooter.
Mical- Melee but with Evade he has good built-in defense.

So, fair amount of melee pieces but not overly reliant on them by any means.

And although you wish to exclude Fringe it's impossible to claim that an actual OR will be all melee, or too heavily leaning in that direction. That's what Fringe characters do. Not saying you've claimed that, just noting this.

"@dreadtech Too heavy on melee? Let's look at Tier 1 OR pieces....

Jaq- Fantastic shooter. Not overcosted, either.
Satele- Melee, true, but certainly not overcosted.
Carth- Good shooter when supported, admittedly low defensive capability. Suprise Move helps.
Juggernauts w/ Bao-Dur- Shooter squad, plus Bao-Dur helps fragility.
Mira (she's a bit iffy insofar as Tier 1 is concerned but I've had considerable success using her in the past as have others, and there is no real reason she can't be competitive with Bastila and the OR Senator. Discount her if you want, though)- Shooter.
Vandar- Excellent range 6 shooter.
Mical- Melee but with Evade he has good built-in defense.

So, fair amount of melee pieces but not overly reliant on them by any means.

And although you wish to exclude Fringe it's impossible to claim that an actual OR will be all melee, or too heavily leaning in that direction. That's what Fringe characters do. Not saying you've claimed that, just noting this."


Reply

Yes too heavy on melee. so low damage output to start with, still for most need to get adjacent. I know its rare that you ever run a faction pure team, however I have done with every faction over the last 5 years. you can make very good faction pure squads with every faction except OR.

1.Jaq, I have already said he was a good mini,

2.Satele is still melee? So she has a good move range, This is dependant on winning the next initiative. 100 hit points used to bee good. 100 can be taken down in 1 activation.

3.Carth his low defence is what make him so bad, Surprise move what all of twice???

4.Juggernauts w/ Bao-Dur- Juggernauts is not bad in fact i do like the droid so should add him with Jaq, Bao is very poor IMO

5.Mira is probably not that bad either, and is a fair shooter with accurate, I do think though she is overcosted.

6.Vandar, Force Suppression is nice and at 60 points would be worth it in say republic, not Old republic. range 6 is not fantastic at all. better than melee true.

7.Mical is still melee? Ok he has evade, wow, you mean evade that every rebel or new republic can get?

Ok yes you can take that away with Batilla, but if a faction is so dependant on 1 character, that to me is the very definition of a poor faction. Plus as stated in earlier my posts, she is not that good outside of DCI games. You keep going on about teir 1 (srange it was teir 4 before) Teir 1 does not exist outside of torny play. I really think you need to understand we are talking about two separate games. You are talking torny or DCI, I'm not. Which I know really makes this redunant in any case.

"So, fair amount of melee pieces but not overly reliant on them by any means"

Never said there were no shooters just most of them are poor exception been Jaq. the faction is still melee heavy though and the ones that are not are poor because of been too costly or too low in defense. Yes there is always going to be exceptions but 1 or 2 exception does not make a good faction.

OK, as more and more OR come out though vsets, a lot of the OR we have now will get better. I just think that the other factions are also getting better but at a quicker rate or because the 4 main factions were too far ahead to begin with. I know the Vset designers have done a lot to close this gap which is appreciated, but look at the new Luke, OR are not going to get anything this good this set, if Sithborg is right that Luke is considered the powerhouse this set.


Kavar you say has a good CE, maybe but he is not worth 65 point not by a long shot. even if the CE was board wide he would not be worth 65 points. and thid is true for most of the 55+ characters, not worth there cost.

Carth, defense so bad I played him tonight in our second game as part of play testing set 6. A 5 point stormmy was hitting him. In fact Old Republic did so bad I did not even bother to send in the second games report. Lost first game as well, but that was more down to bad dice rolling than the faction it self.

I have won games using OR, but that does not equal good. As I have won and lost with every faction, when i lose with imperial, i don't think oh its a bad faction!

As I said, I really think you need to understand we are talking about two separate games.

So I think we are never going to agree, so rather than fill up this thread with this, lets just agree to disagree.

Sure. Though its 2AM here so it will probably be tomorrow before I reply. But agree PMs is best way to continue this.

Although have enjoyed this a lot.

I do think the whole crux of the argument is the appreciation of Bastila's power-level. To me, she's a power 10 piece in any game that's more than 150 points, and I'm having trouble imagining circumstances in which she wouldn't be a major factor for the Old Republic - I don't think that whether the game is in a tournament type setting makes a difference, unless you're playing really open maps where it's easy to get to her and turn Advanced Battle Meditation off. Even in big point, long games when she can potentially run out of Force Points, Advanced Battle Meditation only costs 3, so she can still have it on 2 out of 3 rounds.

She is so effective that she limits what other tools the Old Republic have access to; they're largely limited to solid mid-cost pieces that are kind of generic, and they don't have access to powerful game-breaking abilities such as strong movement breakers, strafers, or tempo control, because Bastila is that good.

And seeing as I contributed to taking this thread off topic I should try to get it back on topic.

I am really excited about Quorreal for a Nom Bomb squad. You will be able to drop 5 workers and 1 Advance Scout into reinforcements. Obviously the big question is what the Zonoma Sekot Scout looks like and if it will have Stealth or Cloaked. I'm guessing Quorreal will be plenty useful in other squads too. A Jedi Hunter, new Warriors, a YV Hunter on Quednak could all benefit greatly from having Aggressive Negotiations. Heck, you could even bring in your Yammosk this way.

Things are getting interesting for the Vong!