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Klatooinian Hunter, from Bounty Hunters  Quote:11 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 12
Attack: 3
Damage: 30
Special Abilities
Black Sun (If a character whose name contains Xizor or Vigo is in the same squad, this character gains Grenades 10)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn) 30 base damage is appealing, and access to Black Sun CEs lift the Klatooinian Hunter's potential damage even further, but realistically, an 11 point piece with 10 hit points and Heavy Weapon is completely unworkable. You're not generally going to waste your squad's movement breaker to move an 11 point piece around, and in any other scenario it's going to sit in the open for a round while you wait to take a shot. 1/10.
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Arca Jeth, Jedi Master, from Command of the Galaxy  Quote:35 points, Old Republic
Hit Points: 100
Defense: 19
Attack: 13
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Lightsaber Wielder (Counts as having a lightsaber)
Parry (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 2 (This character gets 2 Force points each time he activates)
Force Farsight (Force 3, replaces attacks: Move up to 2 allies with a Force rating and Melee Attack within 6 squares up to 6 squares)
Mechu Macture 5 (Force 5, replaces attacks: All Droid characters within 6 squares take 30 damage and are considered activated this round; save 16)
Sever Force (Force 3: replaces turn; Target adjacent character cannot spend Force points for the rest of the skirmish)
Commander Effect
Allies with a Force rating without Force Renewal start the skirmish with +1 Force. With all the power and negation that Old Republic builds get from their cornerstone piece, Bastila Shan, Jedi Master, they've needed neglect in other areas to compensate, so I doubt they'll ever get a cheap efficient movement breaker like R2-D2 Astromech Droid or Ganner Rhysode. But they do have a few interesting movement options - Master Thon offers mount, as does Tott Doneeta, while Arca Jeth Jedi Master offers Force Farsight, which replaces attacks and allows him to move two allies with a Force rating and Melee Attack up to 6 squares. It's certainly an interesting tool for the Old Republic, and there are some interesting squad build possibilities with sending a pair of Mirialan Jedi Knights or Covenant Protectors deep in a single phase, or as a movement breaker for a Jedi like Arfan Ramos or Lucien Draay, Jedi Master who needs to stand still to do their maximum damage. Arca Jeth JM is a reasonable fighter as well, as Parry gives him durability against melee, and he can wreak havoc on droid squads with his Mechu Macture 5, although you don't want to leave him in the path of a good shooter. He does face the problem that, by the time you squeeze him, Bastila JM, Lobot, and a couple of force users to benefit from Force Farsight into a squad, you do start to get strapped for points. You should never overlook the power of a movement breaker though - I reckon there's a decent squad around with him somewhere, and he's a nice piece who opens up some interesting new builds for his faction. 8/10.
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Looking at him, he looks stronger than I remembered. But the only couple of times I tried to build with him I couldn't come up with anything good. Probably for the reasons you mentioned... getting strapped for points pretty quickly.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Looking at him, he looks stronger than I remembered. But the only couple of times I tried to build with him I couldn't come up with anything good. Probably for the reasons you mentioned... getting strapped for points pretty quickly. I experimented with making a squad with 2 Felucian Shamans and using Arca Jeth to move both constantly while they keep their Shaman Aura up. It is a good idea, but with all the Ysalmiri squads in the meta, i doubt it would do well competitively cause it would fial massively at the first sight of one of those squads. But other than that, it would be a pain for any other squad to try and kill a Felucian Swarm with Arca and 2 Shamans. Arca also would give the Felucians extra force to do their Force Blast power 2 times, which is pretty nice.
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That's a really good idea - I'd never thought about that. Maybe because I just got my first Felucian, bringing my grand total to....one!
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FlyingArrow wrote:Looking at him, he looks stronger than I remembered. But the only couple of times I tried to build with him I couldn't come up with anything good. Probably for the reasons you mentioned... getting strapped for points pretty quickly. Same here. I think he would be nice to help out the newer Lucian, but getting strapped for points really hurts. I did run him once though, he helped for sure but not really enough as you are really limited by how far you can push them
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Zenoc Quah, from Armed and Operational  Quote:28 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 16
Attack: 6
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Firejelly (Replaces attacks: Designate 1 door within 3 squares as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Jedi Hatred +10 (+10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Rival (Cannot be in a squad with any non-Yuuzhan Vong characters or characters with Outsider)
Shaper +10 (Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares get +10 Damage. This bonus damage is multiplied by critical hits.)
Specialization (Allies gain Jedi Hatred +10. Ignore this ability if any ally counts as having the same name as another ally.)
Commander Effect
Yuuzhan Vong followers get +4 Attack and gain Evade. Zenoc Quah is one stacked piece - he provides some indispensable SAs and CEs for the Vong - he provides Shaper +10, gives out a +4 attack bonus and Evade to followers, and if you build your squad correctly he also hands out Jedi Hatred +10. That's a lot of extra goodness for 7 points over the regular WOTC shaper, or compared to v-set shapers like Nen Yim. But Zenoc Quah also comes with a major restriction - you can't combine him in a squad with any non-Vong pieces, or any pieces with Outsider. It's actually a sensible game mechanic - since the Vong were inter-galactic invaders, faction pure Vong squads make a lot of sense thematically. But it does also leave Zenoc Quah squads with glaring weaknesses - they can't really access any strong shooters, and they're very limited in door control options - Firejelly from Zenoc himself and from Zonoma Sekot Scouts are the door control options. But overall, I think he brings so much power to Vong builds that it's well worth working with him. +4 attack and evade are both absolutely huge for melee based Vong builds. Zenoc Quah notched up one Regional victory in 2014 with this build winning the California Regional. Quote:--Vonggie Style--
30 Nom Anor, Executor
28 Zenoc Quah
80 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x4
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Yammosk War Coordinator
9 Praetorite Vong Scout
10 Zonoma Sekot Scout x2
4 Yuuzhan Vong Worker
6 Shamed One x2
(200pts. 14 activations) While I'd personally tweak the build a little to work in a Domain Shai Subaltern and Quorreal, the attack boost and evade from Zenoc Quah do make Vong Jedi Hunters an intimidating prospect. Despite his limitations, Zenoc's a very strong piece - he forces the Vong to build in new ways, and Vong pure squads are a good idea for the game, even if it just forces diversity so you don't see Ugnaughts, R7s, and Mouse Droids every game. The jury's still out on him a little, and since he's from a recent set, I think Zenoc builds deserve more exploration, but with a Regional win already under his belt I think he deserves at least a 9/10.
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I think Zenoc will become better as time goes on.
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TheHutts wrote:Zenoc Quah, from Armed and Operational Quote:28 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 16
Attack: 6
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Firejelly (Replaces attacks: Designate 1 door within 3 squares as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Jedi Hatred +10 (+10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Rival (Cannot be in a squad with any non-Yuuzhan Vong characters or characters with Outsider)
Shaper +10 (Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares get +10 Damage. This bonus damage is multiplied by critical hits.)
Specialization (Allies gain Jedi Hatred +10. Ignore this ability if any ally counts as having the same name as another ally.)
Commander Effect
Yuuzhan Vong followers get +4 Attack and gain Evade. Zenoc Quah is one stacked piece - he provides some indispensable SAs and CEs for the Vong - he provides Shaper +10, gives out a +4 attack bonus and Evade to followers, and if you build your squad correctly he also hands out Jedi Hatred +10. That's a lot of extra goodness for 7 points over the regular WOTC shaper, or compared to v-set shapers like Nen Yim. But Zenoc Quah also comes with a major restriction - you can't combine him in a squad with any non-Vong pieces, or any pieces with Outsider. It's actually a sensible game mechanic - since the Vong were inter-galactic invaders, faction pure Vong squads make a lot of sense thematically. But it does also leave Zenoc Quah squads with glaring weaknesses - they can't really access any strong shooters, and they're very limited in door control options - Firejelly from Zenoc himself and from Zonoma Sekot Scouts are the door control options. But overall, I think he brings so much power to Vong builds that it's well worth working with him. +4 attack and evade are both absolutely huge for melee based Vong builds. Zenoc Quah notched up one Regional victory in 2014 with this build winning the California Regional. Quote:--Vonggie Style--
30 Nom Anor, Executor
28 Zenoc Quah
80 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x4
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Yammosk War Coordinator
9 Praetorite Vong Scout
10 Zonoma Sekot Scout x2
4 Yuuzhan Vong Worker
6 Shamed One x2
(200pts. 14 activations) While I'd personally tweak the build a little to work in a Domain Shai Subaltern and Quorreal, the attack boost and evade from Zenoc Quah do make Vong Jedi Hunters an intimidating prospect. Despite his limitations, Zenoc's a very strong piece - he forces the Vong to build in new ways, and Vong pure squads are a good idea for the game, even if it just forces diversity so you don't see Ugnaughts, R7s, and Mouse Droids every game. The jury's still out on him a little, and since he's from a recent set, I think Zenoc builds deserve more exploration, but with a Regional win already under his belt I think he deserves at least a 9/10. I'm biased - but he's one of my favorites. It took a quite a bit of work to get him to the final product, but I'm pretty happy. It started with the kernal of not allowing Vong heresy of droids in a squad - and then taking it further to not allow any outsiders or fringe. We also wanted to incorporate a reward for diversity in the squad (Basically all you see are Vong swarms - spit-bombs, blast-bugging scouts, etc). It is kind of the same idea as Talon Karrde IB, in having large rewards and drawbacks. Still think Specialization is a neat mechanic that may pop up again before too long (what it rewards is variable. It won't always give jedi hatred). Also - more Vong with firejelly headed out soon - so that too will help these builds.
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Clone Trooper on Gelagrub, from The Clone Wars  Quote:24 points, Republic
Hit Points: 80
Defense: 16
Attack: 10
Damage: 30
Special Abilities
Order 66 Somehow the Clone Trooper on Gelagrub has a current Bloomilk rating of 7.18; perhaps they were appealing in the WOTC era as one of the only Order 66 pieces with some semblance of survivability? They can pick up GMA from Captain Rex and double from General Aayla Secura from the same set, as well as other Order 66 CEs. But really their high rating is a reflection on the mediocrity of the majority of the Order 66 pieces from WOTC. While the Gelagrub's stat line would be fairly useful on a medium based Order 66 piece, it's not powerful enough to make up for the disadvantage of a large base. The 80 hit points and 30 base damage does give him some potential - in a Daala squad he's an interesting piece to cannon with Imperial Officers - but there are still plenty of better options out there, 4/10.
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I'd say a 4, and closer to a 5 than a 3. It's kind of hard to rate anything from a 2 to a 6. If a 1 is a piece that is literally worse than another piece stat-for-stat. And a 7 is the edge of playable competitively, what do you do with all the pieces that haven't been directly replaced, but are nonetheless not playable? 2-6 is a big range for those pieces. With 80hp, 10atk, and 30 base damage, I think this one is a lot closer to playability than you give it credit for. In particular, it's nearly (but is not) a candidate for a deep strike cannon squad. When you go to the trouble of sending a piece across the board and use cannon shots, you want to get the most damage out of those shots, so the 30 damage makes a difference. For Daala+Imperial Officer (via Disra), it at least earned a second look. Didn't pass the test, but deserved a longer look than most Order 66 pieces.
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I didn't actually think of the Daala synergies - I guess a 4 makes sense. I'm fairly prejudiced against WOTC Order 66 piece (are any of them good apart from the two versions of Rex?) and large bases, so when the two are combined, I'm not very rational.
TJ and I have been talking about the rating system on SHNN chat, I think it would be good to codify the ratings between 2 and 6, so they're clearer. Obviously 1 means useless, 7 is just about competitive, 8-10 are various levels of competitive, and 11 is a power piece.
So here are some rough guides for the rest:
2 - unplayable, but not completely useless
3 - only playable if you're playing casual/draft type games
4 - mediocre/below average
5 - average
6 - situationally good
Out of interest, here are all the pieces between 2-6. There are a few pieces who maybe could be adjusted - Xizor is obviously expensive for what he brings, but looking at the list, he's probably better than the other 2s. And some pieces have received boosts in the latest set - I'd rate the Republic Commandos higher with the latest commando boosts, but it obviously not practical to update ratings every new set:
2 - unplayable, but not completely useless
AT-AT Driver
Boma
Clone Trooper
Clone Trooper Commander
Clone Trooper Sergeant
Darth Nihl
Dressellian Commando
Elite Clone Trooper Commander
Emperor's Hand
Ghhhk
Huge Crab Droid
Imperial Pilot
Jedi Master Kit Fisto
Luke Skywalker, Rebel
Master K'Kruhk
Molator
Probe Droid
Qyzen Fess
R2-D2
Rebel Soldier
Republic Commando Boss
Rodian Mercenary
Rodian Trader
Royal Guard
Toydarian Soldier
Ugnaught Tech
Verpine Tech
Zabrak Fringer
Zam Wesell
3 - only playable if you're playing casual/draft type games
Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight
Chewbacca of Kashyyyk
Crimson Nova Bounty Hunter
Darth Talon
Dr. Evazan
Ephant Mon
Even Piell
Gonk Power Droid
Han Solo of Hoth
IG-100 MagnaGuard
Jawa Trader
Lord Scourge
Major Maxmillian Veers
Mara Jade Skywalker
Maris Brood
Prince Xizor (moved)
Rattataki Warrior
Rebel Snowspeeder
Rune Haako
Sandtrooper
Shaak Ti
Sith General
Sith Knight
Snivvian Fringer
Talz Chieftain
Wat Tambor
Wookiee Beserker
4 - mediocre/below average
Agen Kolar
A'Sharad Hett
Bodyguard Droid
C-3PO, Ewok Deity
Clone Trooper on Gelagrub (moved)
Darth Sion
Darth Vader
Flim
Jensaarai Defender
Kazdan Paratus
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Padawan
Purge Trooper
Republic Commando Sev
Sith Trooper
Talz Spy
Vanguard
Yuuzhan Vong Droid Hunter
5 - average
Boba Fett, Enforcer
Boussh, Ubese Hunter
Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
Chewbacca and Ewoks in AT-ST
Deena Shan
Defel Pirate
Destroyer Droid
Elite AT-AT Driver
Feral Voxyn
Gungan Bounty Hunter
Heavy Stormtrooper
Infantry Support Platform
Jakan, Most High Priest
Jedi Trainee
Kota's Elite Militia
Luke Skywalker, Hero of Yavin
Mandalorian Commander
Neimoidian Warrior
New Republic Elite Trooper
Nikto Pirate
Niles Ferrier
Noghri Warrior
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Shock Trooper
Sith Apprentice
Sith Inquisitor
Tonnika Sisters
Vodo-Siosk Baas
Voxyn Queen
Zann Consortium Underboss
6 - situationally good
Ben Skywalker
Bespin Guard
Dannik Jerriko, Bounty Hunter
Darth Tyranus, Legacy of the Dark Side
Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter
Death Watch Overlord
DRK-1 Dark Eye Probe Droid
Eeth Koth
Elite Snowtrooper
Emperor Palpatine, Sith Lord
Ewok Chieftain
General Rom Mohc
IG-88 Bounty Hunter
Jabba The Hutt, Galactic Crime Boss
Jax Pavan
Lieutenant Page
Luke Skywalker, Jedi
Rocket Battle Droid
Spacetrooper
SpecForce Urban Combat Specialist
Talon Karrde
Tionne
Visas Marr
Zann Consortium Defiler
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TheHutts wrote:I didn't actually think of the Daala synergies - I guess a 4 makes sense. I'm fairly prejudiced against WOTC Order 66 piece (are any of them good apart from the two versions of Rex?)
With the Gelagrub's beefier stats I think people were willing to pump a lot of CEs into it to try and make it work, I don't know if it was ever great but Giving it double with GMA is fairly easy. There are some good Clones but most of them aren't great, and I think the big problem is they all age very poorly (a lot of the Republic ages poorly actually.) A few of the Commanders are decent (I like both Grees and Bacara,) but the best WOTC clones are probably the Republic Commandos (mostly Sev) and ARC Snipers. (outside of Rex)
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AndyHatton wrote:There are some good Clones but most of them aren't great, and I think the big problem is they all age very poorly (a lot of the Republic ages poorly actually.)) Aging poorly seems almost fitting, since the clones were designed to have a shorter lifespan than an average human.
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Djas Puhr, from Bounty Hunters  Quote:19 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round) If you spend 14 points on General Rieekan, 18 points on a Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo, and 13 points on a Czerka Scientist, Djas Puhr practically a Dash Rendar Renegade Smuggler, with the bonus of Bounty Hunter +2. But.....it costs 64 points, gets shut down by Bastilla/Disruptive, and only has 40 hit points. It's pretty hard to justify Djas Puhr against the other fringe unique opportunist shooters out there - Lando Dashing Scoundrel, even without double, is stronger with his extra damage and hit points with built in mobile and evade, while Dash Renegade Smuggler is much stronger for an extra 9 points. It's the 40 hit points that's his biggest constraint - you can probably boost him into a reasonable attacker with CEs, but he can still get pwned by a twinning lancer or a lightsaber assaulting Jedi. With his low hit points and tough competition from similar shooters, there's no reason why Djas Puhr would ever see the light of day, unless you're playing a casual or draft type game, 3/10.
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For Just 3 more points I'd so much rather take the Tonnika sisters. I was thinking maybe he'd have a use in the Seps with Cad Bane but there are just so many other good cheap Bounty Hunters that unless you REALLY want that Opportunist and Double Attack, you are way off better taking a whole slew of other people. I can not believe this guy has over a 6 on Bloomilk....
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I won a tournament in 2009 with this squad:
--Rebelishious--
27 Lobot
25 Bossk, Bounty Hunter
19 Djas Puhr
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
14 General Rieekan
13 Czerka Scientist
12 Garindan
9 General Dodonna
8 Juno Eclipse
3 Mouse Droid
(148pts. 10 activations)
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TimmerB123 wrote:I won a tournament in 2009 with this squad:
--Rebelishious--
27 Lobot
25 Bossk, Bounty Hunter
19 Djas Puhr
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
14 General Rieekan
13 Czerka Scientist
12 Garindan
9 General Dodonna
8 Juno Eclipse
3 Mouse Droid
(148pts. 10 activations) Do you think he deserves more than a 3? Basing a squad around a mega-boosted unique is a risky strategy with Bastila around (although you're less likely to run into her at 150 points). It feels like you could make something similar but more reliable with Ganner/Dash/Jagged/Dodonna in NR.
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Captain Antilles, from Revenge of the Sith  Quote:20 points, Republic
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 15
Attack: 6
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Commander Effect
Followers within 6 squares who target a Fringe character get +4 Attack and +10 Damage. Abilities that target a specific faction are always very swingy and Captain Antilles pushes that to the extreme, since he gives out what's effectively Fringe Hunter out to all of the followers in his squad. Since most squads will have some Fringe pieces in them, it's not quite as weird as the other faction Hunter abilities, but it's still a big risk to put him in your squad; against some squads you'll merely get a bonus against a few Ugnaughts. He has a decent attack and hit points for a commander, but there's no reason to include him in a starting squad. He can come into a squad after setup via Mon Mothma's or Supreme Chancellor Palpatine's Republic Reserves; since Mon Mothma's a popular, tournament level piece, he can potentially see some play as a reserve - if you're playing against a Mouse Wall or an all Fringe squad, the attack boost is very helpful for a Naboo Trooper squad, so he might be worth picking up for your reserve box if you like to play Naboo. But aside from Mon Mothma's reserves, which only occur on a 20, there's no reason to include him in your squad unless you've peeked at your opponent's squad first (and I certainly don't condone that kind of behaviour). 3/10. PS. Thanks to FlyingArrow for pointing out Mon Mothma's reserves - I omitted her from my initial coverage, and she is his best chance to see some play.
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If he is only cost 20 then Mon Mothma could bring him in. That probably boosts him to a 3 or a weak 4.
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