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I generally liked the tank meta too - I do find Zannah frustrating sometimes, but that's probably because I play it wrong (should leave her to last instead of throwing everything at her).
People complained a lot about Caedus/Malgus and even the Bounty Hunter Challenge pieces a lot, so the designers added counters. Kyp's fine, as you're not likely to see him that often; it's more stuff like the unblockable Vong subcommander swarm and Talon Kardde squads that makes life very difficult for tanks. Even in 2013, which was maybe the tankiest meta, Thrawn plus Palleon did very well in Regional season.
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TheHutts wrote:Kyp Durron, Jedi Master, from Command of the Galaxy  Quote:48 points, New Republic
Hit Points: 110
Defense: 20
Attack: 12
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Pilot
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Bravado +10 (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an adjacent enemy with a higher point cost)
Force-Attuned Reflexes (This character can make an attack of opportunity against enemies with special abilities or Force powers that ignore characters while moving)
Force Powers
Force 5
Brutal Strike (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: This character's attacks cannot be prevented and enemy characters attacked by this character cannot use special abilities or Force powers that respond to this character's attacks for the rest of the turn)
Force Push 3 (Force 3, replaces turn: range 6; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target, and push back target and each character adjacent to that target 3 squares if Huge or smaller)
Lightsaber Throw 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: Choose 1 target enemy within range 6. Make 2 attacks against that target.)
Commander Effect
Pilot allies get +3 Attack and -3 Defense. The New Republic have a few nasty nuke pieces - Mara Jade Jedi is one of the nastiest beatsticks in the game, while Kyle Katarn also gets up to 120 damage with the right support when he's up close. Kyp Jedi Master is similar to these two, but he's much more specialised - he's a specialised tank buster. With Bravado +10 and Brutal Strike, he's brilliant at putting a big hole in a tank piece like General Obi-Wan Kenobi or any of the Bounty Hunter Challenge pieces. It's also worth noting that's he's the exact same cost as popular tank Darth Zannah, so his Bravado doesn't work on her. Tank busting is Kyp's primary focus, but he also has some other tricks. Force-Attuned Reflexes with Twin is a great defense against strafers like the Lancer and Durge on Speeder, while he's also got some direct damage with Force Push 3 and can make all his attacks on the move at distance with Lightsaber Throw 2. He's also got a creative commander effect where he hands out +3 attack and -3 defense to pilot followers - it's great especially for upping Dash's attack. He also has a strong synergy with Luke Galactic Hero, as GMA is very helpful for him, increasing his threat range. The below Weeks squad combines Kyp with both Luke and Dash, and it's probably his optimum build: Quote:--Kyp--
48 Kyp Durron, Jedi Master
48 Luke Skywalker, Galactic Hero
29 Ganner Rhysode
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
11 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Protector
10 Jagged Fel
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3
(200pts. 11 activations) Kyp Jedi Master is a very good piece, but at the same time, I don't imagine him seeing much success in the current meta; it's hard to justify him over Mara Jade Jedi when he's so specialised. If tanks come back into fashion though, he's well worth considering, 7/10. .....soon.....
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I'm not the only one thinking EPIC format for Kyp, JM, am I? 
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You might be. It would be hard to make a Kyp who is better than this one. In the Epic format you'd probably want this Kyp in your squad so that he can take out the enemy Epic piece or other tanks that your opponent will throw at you.
It's kind of like the Epic Mace piece...sure, Epic Mace is powerful, but when you have so much room for customization at 500, you're better to take 65pt Critdu himself and use someone else as your Epic. It would be the same thing with Kyp vs Epic Kyp.
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That's what I meant, USE this fella IN the EPIC format 
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pegolego wrote:That's what I meant, USE this fella IN the EPIC format Oh, I see. lol Yes, he's pretty much an auto-include for me when I'm playing NR at 500pts.
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thereisnotry wrote:pegolego wrote:That's what I meant, USE this fella IN the EPIC format Oh, I see. lol Yes, he's pretty much an auto-include for me when I'm playing NR at 500pts. Is there an updated version of the epic format somewhere? I was looking for it to use in some upping tourney's
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The rules we use at Gencon are as follows:
Epic figure is the only figure who can score Gambit.
Gambit worth 50 pts.
Must have exactly one Epic figure in your squad. 16 Activations Maximum (cannot go over 16 figures with reserves or reinforcements).
Commander Effects or Special Abilities that allow you to move less than the normal amount of characters will be ignored. Advanced Battle Meditation will end at the end of each round (instead of until the character next activates).
There will be no limit on the number of Commander Effects in your squad.
Hope that helps.
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urbanjedi wrote:The rules we use at Gencon are as follows:
Epic figure is the only figure who can score Gambit.
Gambit worth 50 pts.
Must have exactly one Epic figure in your squad. 16 Activations Maximum (cannot go over 16 figures with reserves or reinforcements).
Commander Effects or Special Abilities that allow you to move less than the normal amount of characters will be ignored. Advanced Battle Meditation will end at the end of each round (instead of until the character next activates).
There will be no limit on the number of Commander Effects in your squad.
Hope that helps. FWIW, I found this collection of 500pt Epic rules to be the best. I've played a LOT of 500pt games and these rules seem to hit the bullseye, at least for me.
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Grand Admiral Thrawn, from Universe  Quote:37 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 80
Defense: 18
Attack: 12
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Master Tactician (You automatically choose who goes first except on a roll of 1)
Ysalamiri (Characters within 6 squares cannot spend Force points. This character and characters within 6 squares gain Force Immunity.)
Commander Effect
Non-Unique followers within 6 squares get +3 Attack and +3 Defense. At the end of this character's turn, 2 allies within 6 squares of this character who are the same size may switch positions. Grand Admiral Thrawn struggles for game time, as his other version, Mitt'Thrawn'etc is generally more popular - the latter is cheaper and works with sexy uniques like Lord Vader and Cad Bane. But at the same time, Grand Admiral Thrawn is totally a power piece - he brings a lot to the table for 37 points, with Master Tactician for initiative control, Ysalamari to shut down force users, board wide swap with Mas Amedda, and a stat boost for non-uniques. His biggest reign of terror was with the original black and blue squad - something like this: Quote:37 Grand Admiral Thrawn
75 Darth Vader Jedi Hunter
08 Mas Amedda
30 Stormtrooper x6 While the newer Thrawn works better with uniques (and Pellaeon provides another option for Ysalamari), Grand Admiral Thrawn has enjoyed a comeback with the v-sets for two reasons. Firstly, Bastila Shan's Advanced Battle Meditation has made the deployment of a double bubble into an interesting strategy for the CE-centric Imperials. Secondly, the release of General Weir buffs Storm Commandos, who work well with Grand Admiral Thrawn, as he boosts their low attack. The following Spry squad won the 2012 PA Regional: Quote:--"Weir"thering the Storm, PA Regional Winner--
37 Grand Admiral Thrawn
31 Tyber Zann
28 General Weir
22 Imperial Governor Tarkin
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
34 Storm Commando x2
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
8 Mas Amedda
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
Preferred Reinforcements:
(Tyber Zann) 4 Gran Raider
(Tyber Zann) 6 Rodian Brute x2
(200pts. 14 activations) Having said that, Grand Admiral Thrawn's popularity has receded again - Bastila and Storm Commandos are both less common on the table than they were. The Imperials have three Tier 1 squad bases to build around with both Thrawns and Admiral Daala, and currently Grand Admiral Thrawn is largely dormant. But he still packs a lot of power, and he's secretly plotting to take over the galaxy when we all least expect it. 11/10.
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Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon, from Armed and Operational  Quote:17 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 30
Special Abilities
Speed 4 (Can move only 4 squares and attack, or 8 squares without attacking)
Forward Positioning (Set up anywhere on your half of the battle map)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn)
Machinery (Industrial Repair removes damage from this character)
Sonic Weapon (When this character makes an attack, the target enemy and all characters adjacent to the target cannot use Force powers for the rest of that turn. All characters damaged by this character are considered activated this round.)
Splash 10 (If this character's attack hits, all characters adjacent to the target take 10 damage; save 11. If the attack misses, the target and all adjacent characters take 10 damage; save 11.)
Synchronized Fire (Allies with Sonic Attack or Sonic Weapon who combine fire with this character grant +6 Attack instead of +4) A large base piece with Speed 4 and heavy weapon is unlikely to see any competitive play. It does have its interesting uses - you can bring it into all-Fringe with Alto Stratus, where it can get a much needed attack boost, or you can pawn it and give it twin in the Separatists, where it can also use a Spotter droid for ranged defense. Forward positioning helps it to pick up first round gambit, Splash 10 provides some crowd control, and Sonic Weapon prevents force powers from providing defense. The Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon is strong for themed armies with lots of fun abilities, but the constraints of large base, Speed 4, low attack, and heavy weapon means that it's unlikely to see competitive action, 6/10.
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Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster, from Champions of the Force  Quote:18 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 11
Attack: 4
Damage: 30
Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn)
Speed 2 (Can move only 2 squares and attack, or 4 squares without attacking) A large base piece with Speed 2, terrible stats and heavy weapon is unlikely to see any play. There's possibly a tiny bit of potential - with Mitt'Thrawn, and a Snowtrooper Commander, you can get this thing up to +16 for 40s twice, with Needa for rerolls, but it takes a lot of setting up, and there are much simpler pieces to use. It's been remade in the v-sets as Elite Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster - the addition of Speed 4 and Forward Positioning is helpful. It needed the remake - even in themed squads it's too weak for 18 points. 2/10.
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TheHutts wrote:Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster, from Champions of the Force Quote:18 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 11
Attack: 4
Damage: 30
Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn)
Speed 2 (Can move only 2 squares and attack, or 4 squares without attacking) A large base piece with Speed 2, terrible stats and heavy weapon is unlikely to see any play. There's possibly a tiny bit of potential - with Mitt'Thrawn, and a Snowtrooper Commander, you can get this thing up to +16 for 40s twice, with Needa for rerolls, but it takes a lot of setting up, and there are much simpler pieces to use. It's been remade in the v-sets as Elite Snowtrooper with E-Web Blaster - the addition of Speed 4 and Forward Positioning is helpful. It needed the remake - even in themed squads it's too weak for 18 points. No power rating?
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TheHutts wrote:Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon, from Armed and Operational Quote:17 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 30
Special Abilities
Speed 4 (Can move only 4 squares and attack, or 8 squares without attacking)
Forward Positioning (Set up anywhere on your half of the battle map)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn)
Machinery (Industrial Repair removes damage from this character)
Sonic Weapon (When this character makes an attack, the target enemy and all characters adjacent to the target cannot use Force powers for the rest of that turn. All characters damaged by this character are considered activated this round.)
Splash 20 (If this character's attack hits, all characters adjacent to the target take 20 damage; save 11. If the attack misses, the target and all adjacent characters take 20 damage; save 11.)
Synchronized Fire (Allies with Sonic Attack or Sonic Weapon who combine fire with this character grant +6 Attack instead of +4) A large base piece with Speed 4 and heavy weapon is unlikely to see any competitive play. It does have its interesting uses - you can bring it into all-Fringe with Alto Stratus, where it can get a much needed attack boost, or you can pawn it and give it twin in the Separatists, where it can also use a Spotter droid for ranged defense. Forward positioning helps it to pick up first round gambit, Splash 10 provides some crowd control, and Sonic Weapon prevents force powers from providing defense. The Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon is strong for themed armies with lots of fun abilities, but the constraints of large base, Speed 4, low attack, and heavy weapon means that it's unlikely to see competitive action, 6/10. I thought something seemed off. A data entry error went unnoticed. Shenanigans with a T1 Bulk Loader sounds like fun.
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swinefeld wrote:TheHutts wrote:Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon, from Armed and Operational Quote:17 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 30
Special Abilities
Speed 4 (Can move only 4 squares and attack, or 8 squares without attacking)
Forward Positioning (Set up anywhere on your half of the battle map)
Heavy Weapon (Can't attack and move in the same turn)
Machinery (Industrial Repair removes damage from this character)
Sonic Weapon (When this character makes an attack, the target enemy and all characters adjacent to the target cannot use Force powers for the rest of that turn. All characters damaged by this character are considered activated this round.)
Splash 20 (If this character's attack hits, all characters adjacent to the target take 20 damage; save 11. If the attack misses, the target and all adjacent characters take 20 damage; save 11.)
Synchronized Fire (Allies with Sonic Attack or Sonic Weapon who combine fire with this character grant +6 Attack instead of +4) A large base piece with Speed 4 and heavy weapon is unlikely to see any competitive play. It does have its interesting uses - you can bring it into all-Fringe with Alto Stratus, where it can get a much needed attack boost, or you can pawn it and give it twin in the Separatists, where it can also use a Spotter droid for ranged defense. Forward positioning helps it to pick up first round gambit, Splash 10 provides some crowd control, and Sonic Weapon prevents force powers from providing defense. The Geonosian Soldier with Sonic Cannon is strong for themed armies with lots of fun abilities, but the constraints of large base, Speed 4, low attack, and heavy weapon means that it's unlikely to see competitive action, 6/10. I thought something seemed off. A data entry error went unnoticed. Shenanigans with a T1 Bulk Loader sounds like fun. Lol, I missed that too - and I had a major hand in making those stats! Don't know if that's enough to push it to a 7 though. Always meant for it to be a playable but not top level fun piece. Still think 50/50 chance of activating a group of enemies (with no chance to force point reroll) is where the strength lies
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TimmerB123 wrote:No power rating? I was thinking 2.
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Aurra Sing, Assassin, from Galactic Heroes  Quote:33 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 120
Defense: 20
Attack: 9
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Pirate (Counts as a character whose name contains Pirate)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Assassin (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against living enemies)
Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies)
Camaraderie (An ally named Hondo Ohnaka gains Twin Attack)
Jedi Hatred +10 (+10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Lightsaber (+10 Damage against adjacent enemies)
Force Powers
Force 2 This is a great rendition of Aurra Sing -with some support, she's potentially a devastating shooter who benefits from getting up close, but she's fairly costed at 33 points, since she's fragile for the cost. She's also somewhat situational - she's amazing at beating up Jedi with her Assassin and Jedi Hatred, but she's not so useful against droids. She has two very strong synergy partners - she works in tandem with Hondo Ohnaka as she gives Hondo Twin Attack and he gives her Accurate Shot, while Cad Bane Bounty Hunter gives her Charging Fire +10. Aurra is a really strong spearhead for Separatist Cad Bane squads, and she's a tournament level piece, 9/10.
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Gran Raider, from Clone Strike  Quote:4 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 13
Attack: 2
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Mobile Attack (Can move both before and after attacking)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) One of the more useful non-uniques from the early set, the Gran Raider with Stealth and a medium base is a useful option as a swap piece. While it's largely been superseded by the Rodian Brute as the cheap swap piece - the Rodian lacks stealth, but it's a point cheaper and has better stats - stealth still makes it a useful option in some builds. It's often worth getting a piece with Stealth if you have a spare point or if you're playing a squad with stealth synergies like Moff Nyna Calixte. The Gran Raider is nowhere near as ubiquitous with the Rodian Brute around, but the Gran Raider is still a very useful piece for 4 points, and it's well worth having one or two for Lobot reinforcements, 7/10.
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Dark Trooper Phase I, from Champions of the Force  Quote:12 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 16
Attack: 10
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) As a large based melee piece, the Dark Trooper Phase I is in for a struggle. Even with the addition of General Rohm Mohc's attack boost, rapport 1, and Advanced Shields 2, the worth of the Dark Trooper Phase 1 is tenuous. The Phase II and III Troopers with more hit points and without the constraint of melee are much better pieces for the cost - I can't see the Dark Trooper Phase I getting table time, except as filler in a Rohm Mohc squad, and even then it's the weak link in a mediocre squad, 2/10.
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Dass Jennir, from The Dark Times  Quote:32 points, Rebel
Hit Points: 80
Defense: 18
Attack: 9
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Affinity (May be in a Republic squad)
Lightsaber (+10 Damage against adjacent enemies)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Dispassionate Killer (Force 1: +4 Attack and +20 Damage until the end of this character's turn. At the end of that turn, make a save of 11. If the save fails, this character is immediately defeated.)
Force Leap (Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity)
Jedi Mind Trick (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 2; target living enemy is considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 11) Dass Jennir is a fascinating glass cannon piece - his damage potential is ridiculous if you build around him and use Dispassionate Killer, especially if you give him other damage boosts like Twin Attack. But at the same time, his damage output is based around a risky force power, and he's fragile with no defensive abilities and only 80 hit points. As a follower in two different factions, he has a lot of potential for boosts - among his many options, in Rebels he can pick up robust twin from the SpecForce technican and Evade from Rieekan, while in the Republic he can pick up GMA from Cin Drallig, Momentum from General Skywalker, and opportunist from Yularen. Overall, he's certainly a risk, but it's probably worth it for his potential - he's seen action in Tile Wars and in this squad which took second place at FrostyCon 2013: Quote:“Dass Boot” by Tim Ballard (a.k.a. TimmerB123 on Bloomilk & SWMgamers)
Dass Jennir
Lobot
Luke, RC
Leia, RC
TBSV
ERC
Crix
SpecForce Tech
Rieekan
Dodonna
MSD x2
Map choice: Rhen Var Dass Jennir is a nuanced and well balanced piece - one of the best designs that WOTC came up with in my opinion, even though it means that he's an interesting option for competitive play rather than a power piece, 8/10.
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