Again, it was decided to continue the game, not stagnate it. Mainly, when returning players return, they still know how thier old stuff works. Yes, the new stuff will throw them for a loop, but at least their squad is still playable as they remember. Which is why there will be no changes to the WOTC rulebook or glossary.

And yes, top tier stuff can be unfun to play against. The same was true when WOTC was making the game and in any other game. Hell, Rob literally broke the game in Rebel Storm. You know the most broken element in this game is, and always has been? That multiple counters and changing of the tournament rules had to be made? Override. The game has never really been balanced, why complain when it still isn't there.

And netdecking squads is really a very small issue in a LOT of the best squads. Squadbuilding is one thing, playing it is another.

And now you're just trolling. You can't tell me out of all the V-Set power pieces that GOWK is still the only piece that broke the game. Good troll.

While I am proud that you all managed to come up with your own definition of broken in the board gaming sense, it is not correct, as NPE and broken are synonymous.

NPE: negative play experience (or win with or lose against, it just isn't fun)

My List of Pre-V Set (WotC era)
Grand Admiral Thrawn
Boba, BH - both as or against. No "honor" on a 20.
Jar-Jar
Cad Bane (any GMA turrets)
GOWK

V-Sets
Bastilla JM
Morrigin Corde (Just range CE nerfing in general)

Of this list, only GOWK was the trudge to put down. Strong faction with movement breakers galor and enough support to make the day boring. You either played him or hate squad against him (as previously stated).

These are my opinions. I have been away from the competitive meta for a long time so people will pull out others.

The main thing is that just because something is unfun to play against doesn't equal broken. It just means horrible to face.

GOWK was Buzz Kilington for this game. But, dang, does he have a spiffy beard. :)

Disagree 100% show where and how a Negative Playing Experience and broken are the same. I have gone up against tough squads alot and its never fun to loose but never have I thought that any piece is broken. hard to beat, yes, broken...No I would put money on the fact that if we did a poll on the boards 99% of people would disagree with that statement.

Not just solvable - almost any game is theoretically solvable. But easily solvable by a human. Even solved games are not considered broken if a human can't practically use the solution.

There are other issues that people might use to consider a game broken, though. Frequent stalemates. Egregious kingmaking. Things like that. But NPE isn't one of them. NPE is subjective... what do you dislike? Most definitions of 'broken' appeal to an objective standard (even if people debate what that standard should be).

What do you want? Do you want us to come to your house and convince the other players not to use the Vsets? If people in your group want to use pieces you don't like, wh on Earth would you come complain on an online forum instead of talking to them?



Don't flatter yourself. No one is suggesting that you launch a campaign to get people all over the world to use your neutered pieces. Your play group are the ones designing them.





It's about time you gave us an example of a piece significantly better than GOWK for fewer points.




Because the Vsets are for the competitive scene, not casual. This has been explained to you probably in excess of a dozen times now.



?????

@ corranhorn.
BAM! (sound of hammer hitting nail on head)

Due to the disparity between good pieces and bad pieces in Wizards, squad building and selection has always been important. And there were relatively few strong options, especially at 150 points; even now, the number of strong 200 point squads has really taken off, but I think there are still relatively few strong 150 point squads even with the v-sets.

I took the liberty of looking at Darth_Reignir's squads - this is one that he ranked 10/10 in 2010 (after all the Wizards pieces had come out):

--Rand, Atton Rand--
29 Visas Marr
26 Atton Rand
23 Jedi Crusader
23 Jedi Guardian
18 Jedi Healer
17 Jedi Sentinel
13 Czerka Scientist
(149pts. 7 activations)

There are some good choices in there - obviously Atton and the Czerka have some good synergy, and Visas Marr is a really good support choice with Bodyguard and Force Sense. It's an OK casual squad at 150 points, but I think it would get smashed by the Tier 1 150 point squads from Wizards. I got completely ripped apart by Sharron using this Swinefeld designed squad in the final of a NZ event in 2010 (just before the v-sets, and while our playgroup was still mostly playing 150 point games). I don't even know if it's Tier 1 per se, I might not bother with Wedge in this particular squad, but it's pretty strong:

--Ganner's Grenade--
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
23 Anakin Solo
23 General Wedge Antilles
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
7 Felucian
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(150pts. 9 activations)

This squad just has so many more tactical options that can give the New Republic player control of the game:
- the New Republic squad has Door Control - an R7 and 2 Ugnaughts - so the New Republic player can have the doors open and shut to suit their strategy.
- the New Republic team has a Movement Breaker - Ganner Rhysode - which means he can get Mara where she wants to go, or set up Wedge for a shot at the Czerka.
- with Dodonna, the New Republic squad has Tempo Control, they can just shuffle Ugnaughts around, then make their big move after you've finished for the round.
- Wedge has Accurate Shot. In this situation, he will probably be going after the Czerka.
- we haven't even talked about Anakin Solo, who can go in and blow up the remnants of your team after you finally take Mara down.

In comparison the Old Republic squad is just limited to moving 6 squares and attacking something - it has way fewer tactical options. With all the Tactical Options the New Republic squad has, it's probably going to win every time. Statistically the squads are very similar - almost the same number of overall hitpoints - but the New Republic squad has all the control. With both squads using a Cunning Attacker as a spearhead, the game could probably come down to an initiative roll, but the options the New Republic have mean they can set up so they don't have to rely on initiative.

As a player, I want a toolbox of different choices that allow me to respond to the other player's options, and respond tactically. Vanilla squads don't let me do that - they don't provide the Tactical Options that I need. Even without the v-sets, a lot of key WotC pieces would have to be nerfed before Vanilla teams became playable. And, for me at least, it would just make the game static and dull.