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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Saesee Tiin, from Clone Strike Quote:26 points, Republic Hit Points: 100 Defense: 20 Attack: 13 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)
Force Powers Force 2 Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Saesee Tiin is a weird piece to rate - he's one of those obsolete single attack Republic Jedi from the early sets, but if you're playing builds to specifically boost Republic Jedi from early sets, he's one of their best options. There's no way you'd play him over a Jedi Weapon Master or Ferus Olin in a regular squad, but when you add the boosts for old Jedi - stuff like Master Yoda, who allows an extra attack to single attack Jedi, or Yaddle who hands out Assault, Shien, etc - he's one of the most efficient additions to that squad type. He has Cunning as a damage boost, Stealth for ranged defense, and Lightsaber Block for melee defense. He's intrinsically a third tier kind of piece, with his single attack, but he's going to shine in builds that boost single attackers, 5/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Guri, Black Sun Enforcer, from Shadows Quote:38 points, Fringe Hit Points: 110 Defense: 19 Attack: 9 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Black Sun Vigo Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Assassin (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against living enemies) Close-Quarters Fighting (+4 Attack against adjacent enemies) Human Replica Droid (This Droid character is subject to commander effects) Protective +10 (+10 Damage while a wounded ally whose name contains Xizor is within 6 squares) Sensors (This character and allies can ignore cover when targeting enemies within 6 squares of this character) Stealth (If this character has cover, she does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Xizor's Decoy (Whenever a small or medium ally whose name contains Xizor within 6 squares is targeted, this character can switch places with that character. This character becomes the target instead.) Guri's one of those pieces that has quite a few things going for her - while she's not the heaviest hitter as a shooter, she has some ways to boost her damage with protective and assassin. As a follower, a Human Replica Droid, and a Black Sun Vigo, she's subject to a plethora of commander effects. She also has Stealth and a decent stack of hit points. Most interesting of all, arguably, she's the only fringe piece with Sensors, which makes her an interesting pairing for a character like Arica with Blaster Barrage. Other synergies are obviously with different Xizors - she can gain +4 +10 from Imperial Entanglements Xizor - but she's arguably best with the Xizor from the same set, who's tough enough as a front line fighter to benefit from Decoy, while he gives her accurate and extra attack. The Talon Karrde, Guri, and 55 point Xizor combo is already 125 points, so it's not necessarily a top tier build, but it does make Guri into a formidable shooter. There are a lot of options for Guri, and there's probably something very good somewhere, but right now it seems that she's just expensive enough where she might fall outside competitive play, 7/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Rebel Officer, from Rebel Storm Quote:13 points, Rebel Hit Points: 30 Defense: 15 Attack: 7 Damage: 10
Commander Effect Non-Unique followers within 6 squares get +2 Attack. Rebel's low attacks are often noted as an issue, and the Rebel Officer is a good cheap solution, at least for non-unique followers. This isn't always helpful, as a lot of Rebel squads are based around uniques, and he also has the drawback that he's extremely fragile and that his CE is range 6, so he really needs Mouse Droids to spread his CE. But still, an attack boost for pieces like the Elite Rebel Commandos or Tantive Troopers is interesting, and since his CE isn't faction specific he could potentially be part of a squad that boosts Fringe pieces like Rodian Assassins. He's fragile, and his CE is limited in scope, but if you are building a Rebel squad around non-unique followers, the Rebel Officer is at least worthy of consideration, 5/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2010 Posts: 1,390 Location: Florida
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I certainly remember him being quite invaluable at the start of the game. Just a base +2 attack is pretty decent for troopers.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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TheHutts wrote:Rebel Officer, from Rebel Storm Quote:13 points, Rebel Hit Points: 30 Defense: 15 Attack: 7 Damage: 10
Commander Effect Non-Unique followers within 6 squares get +2 Attack. Rebel's low attacks are often noted as an issue, and the Rebel Officer is a good cheap solution, at least for non-unique followers. This isn't always helpful, as a lot of Rebel squads are based around uniques, and he also has the drawback that he's extremely fragile and that his CE is range 6, so he really needs Mouse Droids to spread his CE. But still, an attack boost for pieces like the Elite Rebel Commandos or Tantive Troopers is interesting, and since his CE isn't faction specific he could potentially be part of a squad that boosts Fringe pieces like Rodian Assassins. He's fragile, and his CE is limited in scope, but if you are building a Rebel squad around non-unique followers, the Rebel Officer is at least worthy of consideration, 5/10. And unlike his rebel storm Imperial doppelgänger, he allows recipients to MOVE and gain the bonus. That being said - it's rare you need such a small bonus where a couple of scrubs wouldn't be better
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009 Posts: 6,457 Location: Southern Illinois
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If you're playing troopers, use Commander Luke, and this guy can hide in a locked room.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Uggernaught, from The Force Unleashed Quote:34 points, Fringe Hit Points: 100 Defense: 16 Attack: 6 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Ugnaught Furious Assault (Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then attack each legal target once) Mounted Weapon (Only allies with Mounted Weapon or adjacent allies with Gunner can combine fire with this character) Rigid (Can't squeeze) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, it makes 1 extra attack against the same target) One of the coolest non-uniques in the game, the Uggernaught is also one of the most map dependent pieces in the game. It has a lot of potential power - Furious Assault with twin has all sorts of potential - but with a huge base, it's dependent on having the right map to succeed. As a fringe follower, it's subject to all sorts of CEs, but like a lot of pieces, its strongest options are in Imperials, where it can pick up Accurate Shot from Veers, as well as movement and stat bonuses from the Thrawns. This build came 2nd in the Jedi Challenge segment in GenCon 2009: Quote:--GenCon Jedi Challenge 200 pt. winner: "Naughty by Nature"-- 37 Grand Admiral Thrawn 68 Uggernaught x2 27 Lobot 21 General Veers 15 Jabba, Crime Lord 13 Czerka Scientist 11 Grand Moff Tarkin 8 Mas Amedda (200pts. 13 activations) It's probably fair to say that the more melee friendly competitive map lists have now relegated the Uggernaught from the competitive spectrum, but it's still a very interesting piece, and definitely one of the more playable Huges. 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Jodo Kast, from Destiny of the Force Quote:38 points, Fringe Hit Points: 80 Defense: 18 Attack: 8 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies) Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving) Virulent Poison Dart (Replaces turn: range 6; 40 damage to target living enemy; save 16) Shooters often dominate this game, but Jodo Kast certainly doesn't. As a fringe follower he's subject to plenty of boosts - he can pick up Greater Mobile Attack from a TBSV and he can pick up Twin from a few different places - but at 38 points, you're much better going with something that works straight out of the box like Dash Renegade Smuggler or Cad Bane. If you specifically want a unique cunning attacker with double and easy access to twin, Rohlan Dyre for 24 points is a much better deal; while he's missing Evade and Bounty Hunter, he's still better value for the cost with built-in Greater Mobile and Beskar'gam. Virulent Poison Dart's an interesting option, but difficult to utilise given that it replaces turn, has range 6, and it doesn't affect droids - it's handy, but it's not going to get much use. Obviously as an easily boostable shooter with Evade, Jodo Kast is a competent piece in the overall scheme of things, but there are so many better options that he's irrelevant, 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Elite Clone Trooper Grenadier, from The Clone Wars Quote:13 points, Republic Hit Points: 20 Defense: 14 Attack: 8 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Order 66 EMP Grenades (A nonliving character that is subject to this character's Grenades ability is considered activated this round; save 11. Huge and larger characters ignore this effect.) Grenades 10 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11) There's no reason to play the Elite Clone Trooper Grenadier. Even though he has some good support - he can get Grenades 30 from the Republic Commando Training Sergeant, mobile and rapport from Queen Amidala, and double grenades from Tarpals - there are other pieces that can utilise the same infrastructure much better. Gungan Artillerists are cheaper, have a line of sight 20 damage cesta, and have a crucial extra 10 hit points. At the same time, the Togorian and Klat Black Sun Vigos provide a much stronger base for a Tarpals Grenades squad. Having multiple alternatives that are stronger and less expensive leave the Elite Clone Trooper Grenadier grossly overcosted at 13 points, and doomed to the Eternal Bin of Darkness, 1/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Captain Mar Tuuk, from Galaxy at War Quote:14 points, Separatist Hit Points: 40 Defense: 14 Attack: 5 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round)
Commander Effect If this character can see an enemy at the start of a phase, you can increase or decrease the number of characters you activate in that phase by 1 (minimum 1). This can include Droid and Savage characters. So basically the Imperials got a version of San Hill with Ozzel, then the Separatists got an equivalent to Grand Moff Tarkin with Mar Tuuk; a tempo control piece who requires line of sight to an enemy piece to function. But while Grand Moff Tarkin can be very useful in some situations - he can allow three activations on a won initiative, and he can be bought in to a matchup as required via Pellaeon - Mar Tuuk is a less useful piece overall. He is excellent in some situations - if you can position him safely after outactivating your opponent, you can set up for extra activations at the start of the next - but as you're unlikely to outactivate an opponent who's running conventional tempo control, he's too situational to be reliable. Perhaps Mar Tuuk's most interesting facet is that he works in tandem with San Hill - so you can run San Hill to outactivate your opponent, then kill San Hill with a Tactics Broker or at least use Mar Tuuk to get around the fact that San Hill's CE is detrimental once you engage, but that requires tying 1/8th of a 200 point squad up in tempo control. Tempo control is one of the strongest elements of the game, but Captain Mar Tuuk isn't one of its strongest practitioners. Even so, tempo control is so useful that I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone figuring out a way to make him a competitive option, 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 1,233
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TheHutts wrote:Captain Mar Tuuk, from Galaxy at War Quote:14 points, Separatist Hit Points: 40 Defense: 14 Attack: 5 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round)
Commander Effect If this character can see an enemy at the start of a phase, you can increase or decrease the number of characters you activate in that phase by 1 (minimum 1). This can include Droid and Savage characters. So basically the Imperials got a version of San Hill with Ozzel, then the Separatists got an equivalent to Grand Moff Tarkin with Mar Tuuk; a tempo control piece who requires line of sight to an enemy piece to function. But while Grand Moff Tarkin can be very useful in some situations - he can allow three activations on a won initiative, and he can be bought in to a matchup as required via Pellaeon - Mar Tuuk is a less useful piece overall. He is excellent in some situations - if you can position him safely after outactivating your opponent, you can set up for extra activations at the start of the next - but as you're unlikely to outactivate an opponent who's running conventional tempo control, he's too situational to be reliable. Perhaps Mar Tuuk's most interesting facet is that he works in tandem with San Hill - so you can run San Hill to outactivate your opponent, then kill San Hill with a Tactics Broker or at least use Mar Tuuk to get around the fact that San Hill's CE is detrimental once you engage, but that requires tying 1/8th of a 200 point squad up in tempo control. Tempo control is one of the strongest elements of the game, but Captain Mar Tuuk isn't one of its strongest practitioners. Even so, tempo control is so useful that I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone figuring out a way to make him a competitive option, 6/10. I have always prefered this type of tempo Control to the Standard 1 activation.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Veteran Ugnaught, from Scum and Villainy Quote:15 points, Fringe Hit Points: 30 Defense: 14 Attack: 2 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Grenades 10 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11) Repair 20 (Replaces attacks: touch; remove 20 damage from 1 Droid character) Shatter Beam (Replaces attacks: sight; designate 1 door as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed) Door control's crucial, and Shatter Beam is a powerful door mechanic - you can remove any door within line of sight. So Fringe Shatter Beam is definitely a useful ability - especially for low activation squads that want to get the doors open and engage. But even so, 15 points feels on the high side for a piece that has little else going for it - the Veteran Ugnaught is fragile at 30 hit points, and its other abilities are relatively unexciting and can be found on cheaper pieces. Even at 15 points, a significant cost for Lobot reinforcements because you can only bring one other piece in with it, Shatter Beam can be a worthwhile option for some squads, but I think it could have been 11-12 points without any problems, 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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countrydude82487 wrote:I have always prefered this type of tempo Control to the Standard 1 activation. Totally, the game would be better off if tempo control was limited to pieces with line of sight or other situational caveats. But Mar Tuuk's CE is obviously weaker than San Hill's CE in most competitive situations.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Captain Tarpals, from Knights of the Old Republic Quote:20 points, Republic Hit Points: 50 Defense: 18 Attack: 6 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Gungan Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Commander Effect Each follower can use 2 abilities that replace attacks instead of 1 on its turn. The Republic is the game's deepest faction, and Tarpals is one of the reasons why - his CE makes any Fringe or Republic follower with a replaces attacks ability twice as effective. Gungan Artillerists, Dr Evazan, Momaw Nadon, Klat Black Sun Vigos with Grenades 30, and Blizz are all examples of pieces who get their attacking prowess super-charged with Tarpals' CE. Urbanjedi took this assortment of Tarpals related pieces to the top 4 at the NY Regional last year (Tarpals comes in via Boss Nass's reinforcements). Quote:--ny regional-- 35 Boss Nass 23 Captain Panaka 16 Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal 16 Queen Amidala 15 Momaw Nadon 20 Clone Trooper with Flamethrower x2 45 Gungan Artillerist x5 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid 4 Rodian Diplomat 8 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2 3 Mouse Droid 6 Rodian Brute x2 (200pts. 19 activations) Tarpals is a very strong commander - at 20 points and with a rangeless CE, he's a steal, even if he's a negligible attacker for 20 points. He's strong enough to anchor competitive squads, so that makes him an 11/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Adi Gallia, from Warfare and Subterfuge Quote:35 points, Repuiblic
Hit Points: 100 Defense: 20 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Aggressive Negotiations (This character is considered to have Diplomat until it makes an attack or is targeted by an enemy character. Characters with Ambush, Backlash, or It's a Trap! can ignore this ability for the purpose of attacking this character.) Shien Style (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11)
Force Powers Force 5 Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Jedi Mind Trick 2 (Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 2; target living enemy and 2 living enemies adjacent to that target are considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 11) Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Shien Style is a very strong ability in this game, and hopefully we see it on some more Jedi going forward, but Adi Gallia is the first piece to have it. It's enough to make her a viable piece, even though it's weakened by Aggressive Negotiations; it's an anti-synergy since you actually want your opponent's pieces shooting her on the way in. While she's not a spectacular attacker, twin's very helpful as she can do all her damage on the move, while she has Block and Force Alter for additional defense. At 35 points, there are other strong Republic Jedi in the same price range with better offense, but Shien Style alone is enough to make Adi Gallia a very respectable option, 7/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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TheHutts wrote:Adi Gallia, from Warfare and Subterfuge Quote:35 points, Repuiblic
Hit Points: 100 Defense: 20 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Aggressive Negotiations (This character is considered to have Diplomat until it makes an attack or is targeted by an enemy character. Characters with Ambush, Backlash, or It's a Trap! can ignore this ability for the purpose of attacking this character.) Shien Style (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11)
Force Powers Force 5 Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Jedi Mind Trick 2 (Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 2; target living enemy and 2 living enemies adjacent to that target are considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 11) Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Shien Style is a very strong ability in this game, and hopefully we see it on some more Jedi going forward, but Adi Gallia is the first piece to have it. It's enough to make her a viable piece, even though it's weakened by Aggressive Negotiations; it's an anti-synergy since you actually want your opponent's pieces shooting her on the way in. While she's not a spectacular attacker, twin's very helpful as she can do all her damage on the move, while she has Block and Force Alter for additional defense. At 35 points, there are other strong Republic Jedi in the same price range with better offense, but Shien Style alone is enough to make Adi Gallia a very respectable option, 7/10. A fun piece to play and one of my wife's favourites, but why no pilot? Would have really helped her out and she was the star main character of Jedi Starfighter. On that note she should have had burst lighting too. Maybe we will get a pilot version of her one day or at least a Nym with camaraderie to hand out pilot to her.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 1,233
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General_Grievous wrote:TheHutts wrote:Adi Gallia, from Warfare and Subterfuge Quote:35 points, Repuiblic
Hit Points: 100 Defense: 20 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, she makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Aggressive Negotiations (This character is considered to have Diplomat until it makes an attack or is targeted by an enemy character. Characters with Ambush, Backlash, or It's a Trap! can ignore this ability for the purpose of attacking this character.) Shien Style (When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11)
Force Powers Force 5 Force Alter (Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack) Jedi Mind Trick 2 (Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: range 2; target living enemy and 2 living enemies adjacent to that target are considered activated this round and cannot make attacks of opportunity this turn; save 11) Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Shien Style is a very strong ability in this game, and hopefully we see it on some more Jedi going forward, but Adi Gallia is the first piece to have it. It's enough to make her a viable piece, even though it's weakened by Aggressive Negotiations; it's an anti-synergy since you actually want your opponent's pieces shooting her on the way in. While she's not a spectacular attacker, twin's very helpful as she can do all her damage on the move, while she has Block and Force Alter for additional defense. At 35 points, there are other strong Republic Jedi in the same price range with better offense, but Shien Style alone is enough to make Adi Gallia a very respectable option, 7/10. A fun piece to play and one of my wife's favourites, but why no pilot? Would have really helped her out and she was the star main character of Jedi Starfighter. On that note she should have had burst lighting too. Maybe we will get a pilot version of her one day or at least a Nym with camaraderie to hand out pilot to her. I can answer that one. In play-testing it became an issue with her Getting Mettle, Evade, Speed 8, and Already having Shien and Aggressive Negotiations. She was Nigh untouchable
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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Adi was in my top 4 squad from the IN regional. She performed pretty well, although I agree that there could be a better option. Pairing her with Cin and giving her Makashi basically gives you a piece with SSM in a sense as she has shien and picks up makashi from Cin. Strong, but not super crazy.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Admiral Motti, from Command of the Galaxy Quote:11 points, Imperial Hit Points: 50 Defense: 16 Attack: 6 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Unique Doctrine of Fear (Enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 Attack) Jedi Hatred +10 (+10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Commander Effect Allies whose names contain Death Star gain Improved Spotter +10. I don't know that any of the Death Star options for Motti are worth building a squad around, but his real use is actually as a substitute for Ozzel - if you don't need Ozzel, specifically against a low activation Jedi squad that you outactivate anyway, Motti's a great replacement via Pellaeon. With 50 hit points, he needs a concerted effort to take down, with Mitt'Thrawn he's at +10 for 30 against activated Jedi, and Doctrine of Fear can make it even tougher for enemy Jedi already dealing with Ysalamiri. Whether a piece that makes an already strong squad type even stronger, in an already favourable matchup, needed to be made is another question, but it's well worth having Motti on hand as a substitute for Ozzel in the appropriate matchups. 9/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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urbanjedi wrote:Adi was in my top 4 squad from the IN regional. She performed pretty well, although I agree that there could be a better option. Pairing her with Cin and giving her Makashi basically gives you a piece with SSM in a sense as she has shien and picks up makashi from Cin. Strong, but not super crazy. I was vacillating between a 7 and an 8, and I could definitely go either way.
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