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Deathwielded
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:37:52 PM
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The Celestial Warrior wrote:
Truly, how I envisioned towards the end of design; the Speed bonus is a defensive bonus when coupled with the Arkanian's GMA. Troopers truly do pop and cover. Now you have 4 squares to play with the line up that shot instead of 3--assuming you return to same square.


If that was the intent then it will work out very well.

What I meant was if the intent was to speed up the whole squad limiting yourself to staying within 6 from 3 allies will kinda still hobble the squad. But for Terrain and 'Popping' it works well.
Deathwielded
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:52:27 PM
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Please forgive my brangling, I don't mean to come off as a complainer, whining about this piece or that SA or that CE.
I am just stating what I do and don't like and I appreciate your feedback on why it's a good idea (or not) and how things work. I realize that this set was called Armed and Operational because it was intended to make some good situationial pieces that aren't good in just any squad. And I appreciate that and love the idea, plus you guys have made some AWESOME pieces in this set.
I think the Arkanian Jedi General, Alema Rar, Darth Maul, Death Watch Overlord, Sorcerer Acolyte, Master Tholme, Geonosian Elite Soldier, Gantoris, Shmi Skywalker, Young Anakin Skywalker, Zann Consortium Droideka, Mandalorian Demolitionist, Mandalorian Strike Force Leader, Zenoc Quah, Finn Galfridian and Prowl are all real winners that will see lots of play time (and squads) with me. Including most all the rest that have some really cool stuff that I can't wait to give a try. AND 1/3rd has yet to be spoiled yet! (with many promising to be big hits!)

Keep up the great work!
DonStamos
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:11:28 PM
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Zenoc Quah is awesome, but the big home run for me is Fey'lya. Borsk had done so much in the EU it was going to be extraordinarily difficult to represent him in a mini. I'm willing to bet the vset crew limited themselves to NJO Borsk, but even so, they've made a piece that not only does his sacrifice on Coruscant justice, but actually does his character - all the way back to the Thrawn Trilogy - justice. The only change I'd make is drop hatred for rival = anybody with a Force rating (dunno if he actually hunted them, but he did distrust them) but I'm happy with how he turned out.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:33:55 PM
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Deathwielded wrote:
AND 1/3rd has yet to be spoiled yet! (with many promising to be big hits!)


Still 29/72 to go! That's almost half! I think the last three sets have all been really good, and this one is promising to be so too.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:43:55 PM
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Deathwielded wrote:
Please forgive my brangling, I don't mean to come off as a complainer, whining about this piece or that SA or that CE.
I am just stating what I do and don't like and I appreciate your feedback on why it's a good idea (or not) and how things work. I realize that this set was called Armed and Operational because it was intended to make some good situationial pieces that aren't good in just any squad. And I appreciate that and love the idea, plus you guys have made some AWESOME pieces in this set.
I think the Arkanian Jedi General, Alema Rar, Darth Maul, Death Watch Overlord, Sorcerer Acolyte, Master Tholme, Geonosian Elite Soldier, Gantoris, Shmi Skywalker, Young Anakin Skywalker, Zann Consortium Droideka, Mandalorian Demolitionist, Mandalorian Strike Force Leader, Zenoc Quah, Finn Galfridian and Prowl are all real winners that will see lots of play time (and squads) with me. Including most all the rest that have some really cool stuff that I can't wait to give a try. AND 1/3rd has yet to be spoiled yet! (with many promising to be big hits!)

Keep up the great work!


You don't have to like the whole set. In fact - you shouldn't. We as designers on Vset 7 were open about the fact during the design process that every piece should not be tier 1. In fact - the majority should not. We'd love it if every piece was INTERESTING, and brought something to the table . . . but with 72 pieces that is a tall order. Trying to have every figure straddle that imaginary and surprisingly thin line between seldom used and broken is impossible. In fact - in my opinion, having every piece be competitive is pretty near the definition of power creep. We knew we'd have some "just for fun" pieces, and "theme" pieces, and "could be cool in the future" pieces, and even a couple "let's just get this new SA out there" pieces. I'm glad even this many pieces have really excited people (with more to be spoiled still). There will be some pieces that don't excite everyone, or even excite many people at all for that matter. That's OK - it's actually better for the longevity of this game than the opposite. I'd rather have a few "duds" in the set than too many over-the-top power pieces.

It was one of my personal goals as a designer to create more options to prevent "auto-losses". That term is thrown around way too much, but I feel if you build a squad well, and run it well - even if it's a "bad" matchup, you should have a shot to win. Many pieces in this set help give certain squad types a chance vs bad match-ups. Other pieces give a new and different take on squad types, trying to mix up the norm a little more. Others still have been oft requested, and we felt needed to be represented. Finally, others are just plain fun! It's not going to be everything to everyone. Truth be told it's not even to each of the designers. There are pieces that each of us love and others that might not do a lot for any one of the 4 of us, but I believe we all stand firmly behind this set as a whole.

I appreciate the praise for the set, and never mind honest negative opinions (as long as they are given in the proper way). Nothing I have seen so far has offended me, so by all means continue with feedback.
komix
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:40:24 AM
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BTW can some1 give us quote for Kota which would explain his "Sith rage"?

Wouldn't Lightsaber precision be more jedi-like here? If not I suppose we can expect more jedi powers on bad guys, correct?

Props to desginers i like new Kota but the best tech piece for me is Buzz droid :)
Deathwielded
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:25:19 AM
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Army of Light Trooper definitely not at all what I was expecting. Beskar'gam is pretty cool, it can help save him from a weak attack. (the kind we would usually try to use when taking out a 5 point character) he will see play just for his satchel charge alone.

Sarlacc Still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of Emplacement and Melee attack, but far less due to Stealth, melee reach 3 and the Sarlacc SA. I'm gonna say this guy is all about placement, get were your opponent needs to go and cause problems. (like right after a door or in the gambit zone) Sith Battle Meditation might make him worth a shot. (I was thinking of Force Pull, but you would need to be in the range of the Sarlacc for it to work)
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:39:13 AM
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Deathwielded wrote:
Army of Light Trooper definitely not at all what I was expecting. Beskar'gam is pretty cool, it can help save him from a weak attack. (the kind we would usually try to use when taking out a 5 point character) he will see play just for his satchel charge alone.


1001 ways to go with these guys, since there were easily 1001 of them. Originally, he was 17 points and did a little bit more, but as Farfalla evolved I wanted a cheaper, more spammable piece.

Deathwielded wrote:
Sarlacc Still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of Emplacement and Melee attack, but far less due to Stealth, melee reach 3 and the Sarlacc SA. I'm gonna say this guy is all about placement, get were your opponent needs to go and cause problems. (like right after a door or in the gambit zone) Sith Battle Meditation might make him worth a shot. (I was thinking of Force Pull, but you would need to be in the range of the Sarlacc for it to work)


I'm not going to lie. This piece nearly ruined the design experience for me. I ended up walking away from this one; an advantage of having 4 designers.
adamb0nd
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:44:51 AM
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♫I'm Tott Doneeta ridin' on a sarlacc♫

On a serious note, i could see the sarlacc being used in non-competitive themed games as a neutral entity. The sarlacc ability could make it a cool map hazard if you just play that the fig doesn't get to activate, and can't be targeted as an enemy.
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:46:08 AM
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komix wrote:
BTW can some1 give us quote for Kota which would explain his "Sith rage"?

Wouldn't Lightsaber precision be more jedi-like here? If not I suppose we can expect more jedi powers on bad guys, correct?

Props to desginers i like new Kota but the best tech piece for me is Buzz droid :)


That was for the Arkanian; Kota never had FT that I recall.

The Arkanian was more irony: "A Jedi uses the Force for defense, never for attack."

and was a reference (somewhere--SWTOR maybe) to the inherent dangers of Jedi leading wars, couple that with Prideful and the offensive nature of this piece and, voila, Sith Rage on a good guy.

Kota is also a very aggressive personality, and he just deserved more than +10 on 1 attack. :D
adamb0nd
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:51:15 AM
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Man... a lot of these pieces just look fun as hell to play. Fin was kind of "meh" when I first saw him, but when you look at the big picture with prowl, it looks like they'd be a lot of fun to field together.
Mando
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:10:36 AM
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I like how the Sarlaac is basically saying "All ur gambit zones are belongs to us" Tongue

you can basically set this guy up in the gambit zone and make it hard for people to get into it. Looks like a really fun piece to play. It obviously does depend on the map selection as far as how effective it is at taking the gambit zone, but it should make for some interesting games.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:20:05 AM
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The Celestial Warrior wrote:
Deathwielded wrote:


[quote=Deathwielded]Sarlacc Still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of Emplacement and Melee attack, but far less due to Stealth, melee reach 3 and the Sarlacc SA. I'm gonna say this guy is all about placement, get were your opponent needs to go and cause problems. (like right after a door or in the gambit zone) Sith Battle Meditation might make him worth a shot. (I was thinking of Force Pull, but you would need to be in the range of the Sarlacc for it to work)


I'm not going to lie. This piece nearly ruined the design experience for me. I ended up walking away from this one; an advantage of having 4 designers.


I can imagine. This creature, for not moving at all, really looked hard to quantify for the fan-created segment. It had to be difficult to craft after play testing.

harryg
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:31:17 AM
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Sarlacc will be good in Sith. Exar, force spirit will make it easier to pull off sarlacc and clamp. And as said before, caedus Sith Lord can manipulate people into the beast!
adamb0nd
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:42:49 AM
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I would have removed stealth and included some other mechanic in Sarlacc that, unless adjacent, he can only be attacked by characters with flight. It would have been a little bit more accurate than an accurate shooter picking him off from across the field.
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:45:48 AM
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Well their tentacles are still out in the open. A good shot would be able to hit one of those
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:55:44 AM
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adamb0nd wrote:
Man... a lot of these pieces just look fun as hell to play. Fin was kind of "meh" when I first saw him, but when you look at the big picture with prowl, it looks like they'd be a lot of fun to field together.


That was the idea. :D

They are definitely a case of the total being greater than the sum of the parts.

It's actually takes a little practice to get them to work in perfect tandem, but once you get the rythm I think they'll be quit fun.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:00:21 AM
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adamb0nd wrote:
I would have removed stealth and included some other mechanic in Sarlacc that, unless adjacent, he can only be attacked by characters with flight. It would have been a little bit more accurate than an accurate shooter picking him off from across the field.


We had it for awhile that it couldn't be attacked at all further than 6 away, but then it was simply too good. This is definitely NOT supposed to be a tier one piece.

I pulled my hair out several times during the design of this piece. Still wish we saved it for an epic or scenario piece. It took 9 pages to hammer this fig out.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 9:28:53 AM
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I love what the designers did with Sarlacc. It did a great job capturing how we wanted the Sarlacc to work. (I was active in the community design thread.) And it improved it by streamlining it. It costs probably 10 points more than necessary, but no objection there because it's such an unusual piece that it's better to be safe and overcost it than to watch it dominate through some unforeseen interaction.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 9:46:04 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I love what the designers did with Sarlacc. It did a great job capturing how we wanted the Sarlacc to work. (I was active in the community design thread.) And it improved it by streamlining it. It costs probably 10 points more than necessary, but no objection there because it's such an unusual piece that it's better to be safe and overcost it than to watch it dominate through some unforeseen interaction.


You hit the nail on the head. The community came up with a lot of good stuff for it, I know Jake K (Sthlrd2) put a lot of effort into it. But it literally all wouldn't have fit on the card. So streamlining HAD to happen.

In the end, better a fun and or scenario piece (what it was meant to be all along) than an "oops" top tier piece.

150 HPs is still gonna be super annoying to work through.
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