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TheHutts wrote:atmsalad wrote:The problem I am coming to find is that most play tests are just used to make sure the mechanics interact as desired and that the piece in question is powered correctly. Most do not attempt to abuse the piece to its fullest, which is why we end up with the Daalas and the CDO's of the world. I think it's a lot easier to test a piece like this though - his synergies are relatively obvious (use a movement breaker so he gets to use Serenity, play with other Jedi to use his Commander Effect). It's always the stuff around non-uniques, who are subject to boat loads of CEs, that slips through as they're much harder to test. Like Dr Daman's Daala squad with obscure stuff like Raxus, the Repulsor Sled, Needa, et al - very hard to expect someone to find something that intricate in playtesting. +1 to that
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jen'ari wrote:
A mace Windu with Lightsaber Defense is hard to swallow.
Mace Windu can get Lightsaber Defense from Master Yoda already, its cheaper and has no restrictive Rival. That didn't break the game, I really don't see how Qui-Gon giving it to him is in any way worse. I like the new Qui-Gon, I've been thinking we need an updated one lately and this one is nice. I really don't see him as being over the top. And it seems like a fair representation of at his peak Qui-Gon. Serenity is hard to pull off and why would you even NEED 20 Force Points with him? Its not like Caedus where you burn them off quickly, he is spending a few for Defensive abilities and Force Push. I once had Vader and Sidious have over 15 FPs a piece. They weren't even going to actually use them all, so how is that an issue? And like theHutts said, people complain melee isn't good, a good Jedi comes out and people complain.
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AndyHatton wrote:
And like theHutts said, people complain melee isn't good, a good Jedi comes out and people complain.
SOME people complain, most of us (I'd think) enjoy the new Jedi.
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Getting sick of people bagging on new pieces in general to be honest, not just Jedi. If you can't handle what the sets bring out, don't play them. Simple as that. Don't tell people you hate the flavour, you hate the way the piece is designed, the way it represents the character, if you don't like it don't pipe up, because the people who love the fact we got a new qui gon don't want to read it.
And on that note, I don't know how competitive Quigon will be anyway, with only maximum 60 damage output in today's game, I don't know if he will cut it, especially in republic with minimal damage boosts. Will that stop me from building a squad for him to be awesome? Not in the slightest. I really like him. Bring on more quiggys!
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AndyHatton wrote:like the new Qui-Gon, I've been thinking we need an updated one lately and this one is nice. I really don't see him as being over the top. And it seems like a fair representation of at his peak Qui-Gon. Serenity is hard to pull off and why would you even NEED 20 Force Points with him? Its not like Caedus where you burn them off quickly, he is spending a few for Defensive abilities and Force Push. I once had Vader and Sidious have over 15 FPs a piece. They weren't even going to actually use them all, so how is that an issue? I think you made some good points. Most of his FP will be used for defense. I am worried that this character will encourage non-engagement between his defensive capabilities and being able to swap him out of danger to gain 3 rounds of force points for 1 round of inaction with him. Which doesn't mean yobuck or some secondary attacker can't be harassing your opponent. Will it be tier 1 with buck buck? Probably not... Only time will tell.
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sharron wrote:Getting sick of people bagging on new pieces in general to be honest, not just Jedi. If you can't handle what the sets bring out, don't play them. Simple as that. Don't tell people you hate the flavour, you hate the way the piece is designed, the way it represents the character, if you don't like it don't pipe up, because the people who love the fact we got a new qui gon don't want to read it.
And on that note, I don't know how competitive Quigon will be anyway, with only maximum 60 damage output in today's game, I don't know if he will cut it, especially in republic with minimal damage boosts. Will that stop me from building a squad for him to be awesome? Not in the slightest. I really like him. Bring on more quiggys! In playtests, he was paired with the Aayla Secura with Force Pull 2. That made pulling off Ataru Style Mastery off a lot easier, getting you to 120 dmg. I think probably the best squads with him are with Aayla and Quinlan Vos. I like how he turned out, and he makes it so you can run all jedi squads and gives the older jedi's that didn't have Lightsaber Defense a chance to keep up with the current figures that are coming out. I think the change to Ysalmiri will help a lot when it comes to deciding to build squads around Qui Gon, since now you can actually use Lightsaber Defense against attacks made from within the bubble.
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Mando wrote:In playtests, he was paired with the Aayla Secura with Force Pull 2. That made pulling off Ataru Style Mastery off a lot easier, getting you to 120 dmg. I think probably the best squads with him are with Aayla and Quinlan Vos. I like how he turned out, and he makes it so you can run all jedi squads and gives the older jedi's that didn't have Lightsaber Defense a chance to keep up with the current figures that are coming out. I think the change to Ysalmiri will help a lot when it comes to deciding to build squads around Qui Gon, since now you can actually use Lightsaber Defense against attacks made from within the bubble. +1
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donnyrides wrote:Darth Desolous!!! Hope this come with some Uta love! Can't wait. If you can't spoil the stats, can you spoil the recommended figure to use for it? My customs for GenCon sealed used the Utapaun Warrior. Pretty easy o add a lightsaber to him. The official RM is Darth Plagueis
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leshippy wrote:donnyrides wrote:Darth Desolous!!! Hope this come with some Uta love! Can't wait. If you can't spoil the stats, can you spoil the recommended figure to use for it? My customs for GenCon sealed used the Utapaun Warrior. Pretty easy o add a lightsaber to him. The official RM is Darth Plagueis I think I found an image of it. Looks great, needs a little red paint over the eyes if it's the same one I found. I hope it's something like my custom. darth-desolous--utapaun-warlord
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donnyrides wrote:leshippy wrote:donnyrides wrote:Darth Desolous!!! Hope this come with some Uta love! Can't wait. If you can't spoil the stats, can you spoil the recommended figure to use for it? My customs for GenCon sealed used the Utapaun Warrior. Pretty easy o add a lightsaber to him. The official RM is Darth Plagueis I think I found an image of it. Looks great, needs a little red paint over the eyes if it's the same one I found. I hope it's something like my custom. darth-desolous--utapaun-warlord There are some similarities. Concepts are very much inline with one another
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sharron wrote:Getting sick of people bagging on new pieces in general to be honest, not just Jedi. If you can't handle what the sets bring out, don't play them. Simple as that. Don't tell people you hate the flavour, you hate the way the piece is designed, the way it represents the character, if you don't like it don't pipe up, because the people who love the fact we got a new qui gon don't want to read it.
And on that note, I don't know how competitive Quigon will be anyway, with only maximum 60 damage output in today's game, I don't know if he will cut it, especially in republic with minimal damage boosts. Will that stop me from building a squad for him to be awesome? Not in the slightest. I really like him. Bring on more quiggys! what I am getting sick of is the design team designing pieces with the sole purpose of fixing problems instead of representing characters. take the name away from characters and just look at stats and you should have a great guys of who the character is. that happens with a lot of pieces. but you take away the name of this piece and you ask who out is you do not ever think it's qui gon ginn. you think it is yoda or luke Skywalker. this is happening a lot. if it keeps happening we will not be playing star wars minis we will be playing minis. I love star wars. that is the main reason why I play this game. I love qui gonn ginn. this piece is not close to qui gon. you say don't pipe up. I say try harder when designing because this design is yoda not qui gonn ginn. that is a serious issue imo of we are using pieces to fulfill a purpose instead of representing a character. don't give me this mumbi jumbo about being one of the best swordsman and it's him on his peak. everyone knows that is a garbage argument. the two purposes, making melee competitive and represent characters properly has to be ingrained in the design process. at Juice man I am not trying to bash. the only thing I see about this piece is bad things so taking about it at all is going to be negative. but since the piece is not good, I see it as fine. I see basing as purposeful, meaningless insults.
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jen'ari wrote:
I say try harder when designing because this design is yoda not qui gonn ginn. that is a serious issue imo of we are using pieces to fulfill a purpose instead of representing a character. don't give me this mumbi jumbo about being one of the best swordsman and it's him on his peak. everyone knows that is a garbage argument.
well this video clip just about sums up what I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQpretty much that.
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Mando wrote:jen'ari wrote:
I say try harder when designing because this design is yoda not qui gonn ginn. that is a serious issue imo of we are using pieces to fulfill a purpose instead of representing a character. don't give me this mumbi jumbo about being one of the best swordsman and it's him on his peak. everyone knows that is a garbage argument.
well this video clip just about sums up what I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQpretty much that. Hahaha, +1. As usual, the "everyone knows that is a garbage argument" statement shuts down any kind of discussion. If you really believe that everyone know that, then anyone disagreeing with you is either a liar or an idiot.
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jen'ari wrote:
I love qui gonn ginn.
Do you? You spelled his name wrong I really don't see how this piece isn't like Qui-Gon Jinn. Lets go through his abilities Special Abilities Unique. Melee Attack; Triple Attack Qui-Gon was a good swordsman, he used Ataru that is making a bunch of quick strikes he should have a lot of attacks and no natural damage bumps. He has that. Evade; Mobile Attack To use Ataru you have to be fast and we see Qui-Gon dodge a bunch of blasters in the movie.
Ataru Style Mastery [+4 Attack and Twin Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares]
Again Master of Ataru Rival [Cannot be in a squad with another commander with a Force rating]
He was a stubborn renegade, he did whatever he wanted this fits him very well. Force Powers Force 2. Master of the Force 2
I'm of the opinion all Jedi Masters should have MOTF Force Essence [When this character is defeated, you may immediately set up a character named Qui-Gon Jinn, Force Spirit in the square this character formerly occupied. Any "at the start of the skirmish" instances are immediately resolved.] Easy he becomes a Force Ghost Force Push 4 [Force 4, replaces attacks: sight; target character takes 40 damage and is pushed back 4 squares] We see him use push A LOT in the movies, and its fairly strong. Compare to Kit Fisto in Attack of the Clones who pushes over 1 droid. That is Force Push 1 or 2. What Qui-Gon is doing is much bigger than that Knight Speed [Force 1: Can move 4 extra squares on his turn as part of his move] Straight out of the movie Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks] Using the Force to make himself faster, again straight out of the Darth Maul fight Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11] Every Jedi should have this
Serenity [Replaces turn: This character gains 6 Force points]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity_(trance) Commander Effect
Allies with a Force rating and a lightsaber gain Force Renewal 1 and Lightsaber Defense. And despite being a stubborn man, he was still an excellent teacher Honestly the only thing I don't like about him is his name.
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well... technically he does not become a force ghost.... 
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Well sure, He becomes a Force SPIRIT is that better 
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AndyHatton wrote:Special Abilities
Unique. Melee Attack; Triple Attack Qui-Gon was a good swordsman, he used Ataru that is making a bunch of quick strikes he should have a lot of attacks and no natural damage bumps. He has that.
Evade; Mobile Attack To use Ataru you have to be fast and we see Qui-Gon dodge a bunch of blasters in the movie.
Ataru Style Mastery [+4 Attack and Twin Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares]
Again Master of Ataru
Rival [Cannot be in a squad with another commander with a Force rating]
He was a stubborn renegade, he did whatever he wanted this fits him very well.
Force Powers
Force 2. Master of the Force 2
I'm of the opinion all Jedi Masters should have MOTF
Force Essence [When this character is defeated, you may immediately set up a character named Qui-Gon Jinn, Force Spirit in the square this character formerly occupied. Any "at the start of the skirmish" instances are immediately resolved.] Easy he becomes a Force Ghost
Force Push 4 [Force 4, replaces attacks: sight; target character takes 40 damage and is pushed back 4 squares] We see him use push A LOT in the movies, and its fairly strong. Compare to Kit Fisto in Attack of the Clones who pushes over 1 droid. That is Force Push 1 or 2. What Qui-Gon is doing is much bigger than that
Knight Speed [Force 1: Can move 4 extra squares on his turn as part of his move] Straight out of the movie
Lightsaber Assault [Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks] Using the Force to make himself faster, again straight out of the Darth Maul fight
Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11] Every Jedi should have this
Serenity [Replaces turn: This character gains 6 Force points]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity_(trance)
Commander Effect
Allies with a Force rating and a lightsaber gain Force Renewal 1 and Lightsaber Defense. And despite being a stubborn man, he was still an excellent teacher
Honestly the only thing I don't like about him is his name. Great break down! I completely agree that this piece is a good representation of quigon just after his peak. Especially with mobile instead of greater mobile. That was a nice touch by the designers. Looking forward to playing with this guy.
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AndyHatton wrote:Well sure, He becomes a Force SPIRIT is that better No he doesn't at least in the clone wars cartoon he cannot manifest himself so he does not become anything like a force spirit or ghost.
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Yeah he does he is a spirit on Mortis, and the movies directly reference him becoming a ghost http://clonewars.wikia.com/wiki/Qui-Gon_Jinn
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no he is not a force spirit or ghost ---------in voices , season six episode 11 he tells yoda he cannot manifest as his training was incomplete. at the point 3:38. he says he can speak to him, but cannot manifest... Boom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=070RD1EiEDsand the movies say yoda hears him, does not mean he is a force spirit or ghost. what happens on mortis is a vision, not him actually appearing.
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