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I'd say a 4 is right then "4 - Mediocre/below average - If these pieces are in a competitive squad, they are making the squad worse."
I think with Yaddle, he isn't the best option but he is an option, he fits in ok in some casual squads with Yaddle or Wolffe, but he is certainly making a Competitive squad worse.
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TimmerB123 wrote:Even with Yaddle he doesn't make the cut. I'd say 2, 3 at most (Agen as well). I think the real mystery is how I justified a 4 for Agen before Yaddle came out.....
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He has 2 Defensive powers and 120 HP? Maybe?
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AndyHatton wrote:He has 2 Defensive powers and 120 HP? Maybe? He's maybe semi-viable with Master Yoda - he's better with Yoda than Plo Koon is, but they're about the same with Yaddle.
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Mandalorian Bounty Hunter, from Destiny of the Force  Quote:22 points, Mandalorian
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 16
Attack: 8
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies)
Flamethrower 20 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) I'm not sure that the Mandalorian Bounty Hunter has ever seen much play. He's very competent - with 70 hit points and Stealth, he has good survivability for a shooter. With double, easy access to twin, a reasonable attack, and a direct damage option with Flamethrower 20, he's a passable attacker as well. There's absolutely nothing wrong with him, but the Mandos simply have better pieces that are similar - the Mando Scouts have Opportunist and Cloaked, while pieces like Kelborn and the Mandalorian Gunslingers are probably also better options. The Mandalorian Bounty Hunter is a good piece, it's just that the Mandalorians have options that are even better, 7/10.
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I actually won a tournament back when he first came out with mobile commander and Canderous Armor. Called it Mandalorian Flame Mechs and went awesome
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Medical Droid, from Revenge of the Sith  Quote:12 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 11
Attack: 0
Damage: 0
Special Abilities
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects)
Emergency Life Support (Adjacent living allies gain Avoid Defeat)
Heal 10 (Replaces attacks: touch; remove 10 damage from a living character) Heal 10 on a 12 point piece is a very tough sell. On the other hand, Emergency Life Support is a useful Special Ability since Avoid Defeat can effectively prolong the life on pieces with access to force points for rerolls. But with that set of abilities, the Medical Droid is comparable to and outclassed by Evazan Galactic Criminal, who comes with some offense, more hit points, and a stronger (albeit riskier) version of Heal, as well as Emergency Life Support. The Medical Droid wasn't seeing much play in any case, but it's even more difficult to justify playing one with Evazan filling the same niche 1/10.
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Master Lucien Draay, from Knights of the Old Republic  Quote:48 points, Old Republic
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 20
Attack: 15
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Covenant
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Lightsaber Duelist (+4 Defense when attacked by an adjacent enemy with a Force rating)
Force Powers
Force 1
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Lightsaber Deflect (Force 1: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Lightsaber Riposte (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn) Master Lucien Draay is tanky for 48 points - with Block, Deflect, Lightsaber Duelist, and 130 hit points, he's a tough nut to crack. But at 48 points, he feels overcosted given his limited offense - while Riposte is helpful against other melee and strafers, otherwise he's limited to a plain double attack. He's similar to Kol Skywalker from Jedi Academy - while Draay's Riposte and Deflect are strong additions, Kol's 10 points cheaper and has access to Evade. Draay's also encumbered by only starting with a single force point. Apart from the Covenant identifier, which was added post WOTC, Lucien is also a very generic design; take away Covenant, and his stat block could belong to any beefy Jedi. Lucien's high hit points, strong defenses, and the ability to riposte twice in a turn make him slightly interesting, but fundamentally he's a glorified damage sink. 5/10.
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TheHutts wrote:fundamentally he's a glorified damage sink. 5/10. I think that is the best summary a 5/10 piece has ever gotten 
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Do you think Krynda Draay helps him at all or is V-set Lucien just all around better?
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AndyHatton wrote:Do you think Krynda Draay helps him at all or is V-set Lucien just all around better? I actually completely forgot about her..... I'm not really a big fan, and I'd probably rather just run the new Lucien, but she probably does raise him a peg or two.
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Its hard...I think she helps, mettle makes him even tankier and he can spend her FP which compensates for his low start, but if you are playing them together you are probably playing a Covenant Squad and probably want Faster, pretty solid CE Lucien. (And you can maybe drop Krynda? altogether then?)
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One-Arm, from Warfare and Subterfuge  Quote:19 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 14
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Wampa
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Charging Assault +10 (Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +10 Damage against an adjacent enemy)
Rival (Cannot be in a squad with any character whose name contains Luke)
Skywalker Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies whose names contain Skywalker)
Synergy +4 (Allies whose names contain Wampa get +4 Attack while within 6 squares of this character)
Commander Effect
Savage characters are subject to this effect:
Savage allies whose names contain Wampa are subject to allies’ commander effects. As you may be able to tell from her Special Abilities, One-Arm was the Wampa whose arm Luke cut off at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back. One-Arm helps bring Wampas and Rampaging Wampas back to the table, at least for casual games, by making them eligible for CEs and giving them an attack boost. I don't know that they're anywhere near a tournament build, but something like this greentime build definitely looks fun: Quote:--Hoth Force Wampa--
27 Lobot
22 Rampaging Wampa
19 One-Arm
16 Chiss Captain
14 General Rieekan
78 Wampa x6
11 Ithorian Commander
9 General Dodonna
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
(199pts. 14 activations) You're not going to see them on competitive tables anytime soon; as melee pieces with large bases, the Wampas are always going to struggle. But One-Arm does a good job of at least giving them a chance of seeing casual play, 6/10.
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Corellian Pirate, from Bounty Hunters  Quote:10 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 14
Attack: 5
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Cheap Accurate Shot is useful, and as a fringe follower the Corellian Pirate has plenty of potential boosts - with Jabba Crime Lord and Talon Karrde it's up to +15 for 40 against an unactivated piece. But at the same time, plenty of other pieces also look really good with those boosts, and you're better off with a 12 point Rodian Assassin every time - the Rodian is more robust with Stealth and extra 10 hit points, and is a better attacker with Bounty Hunter +2 and Assassin, while the Jawa Scavenger is another stronger option for top of the round accurate shot and stealth. Unfortunately, the Corellian Pirate doesn't benefit from Hondo Ohnaka's pirate synergies either. It's very difficult to drop 10 points on a piece with 10 hit points and no ranged defense, and there's always a better option than the Corellian Pirate, even if two Corellian Pirates is a potential Lobot reinforcement option, 4/10.
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Plo Koon gets a 4 and the Corellian Pirate gets a 2? I think you got those reversed.
Being able to bring in TWO accurate shooters with Lobot that can do 20 damage without a boost is not horrible. Kill an opponent's Lobot, or their Rodian Assassin.
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If you think he is good enough to be a suitable Reinforcement option, that means he is a 6. I would much rather take a Rodian Assassin or a Jawa Scavenger for 2/3 more points to get stealth than risk trying to even hit anything with a Correlian Pirate.
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I think Tim's probably right.
Even if you probably wouldn't actually use it in a game, I guess being a theoretical Lobot option is enough for a 4. How about I put Plo to a 3 and Corellian Pirate to a 4?
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TheHutts wrote:I think Tim's probably right.
Even if you probably wouldn't actually use it in a game, I guess being a theoretical Lobot option is enough for a 4. How about I put Plo to a 3 and Corellian Pirate to a 4? I'd be fine with that. (Not that I have any authority in such matters, lol)
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Yuuzhan Vong High-bred Warrior, from Destiny of the Force  Quote:11 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 15
Attack: 6
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Yuuzhan Vong Warrior (Counts as a character named Yuuzhan Vong Warrior)
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Razorbug (Replaces attacks: sight; 10 damage; save 11)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Vonduun Crab Armor 11 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11) With built-in twin, the High-bred Warrior has arguably been overlooked - with access to Vong attack and damage boosts, it had the potential to be a good cheap hitter for the Vong. But uncharacteristically, it's been completely overshadowed by another v-set piece - the Domain Lah Warrior is a point cheaper and has Speed 8, a more than fair trade-off for losing Razorbug. The Domain Lah Warriors have been a successful tournament build this season, especially with the Subaltern giving them impressive range with Charging Assault. The High-Bred Warrior is a good piece, and could probably do well in the same squads that the Domain Lah thrives in, but the Domain Lah Warrior is always going to be the best choice, 5/10.
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Jolee Bindo, from Knights of the Old Republic  Quote:23 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 80
Defense: 19
Attack: 9
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Avoid Defeat (Whenever this character would be defeated, make 2 saves, each needing 11; if both succeed, this character has 10 Hit Points instead of being defeated)
Force Powers
Force 4
Force Stun (Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; target living enemy is considered activated this round; save 11)
Force Valor (Force 2, replaces attacks: For the rest of the skirmish, this character gains the following commander effect: Followers within 6 squares get +2 Attack and +2 Defense)
Lightsaber Deflect (Force 1: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Jolee: What can I say, I did it all for the Wookies. Player: The Wookies? Jolee: The Wookies! As a Fringe force user Jolee Bindo has some neat tricks - with Force Valor he has access to a weak commander effect, Force Stun's a handy trick, Deflect gives him some ranged defense, Avoid Defeat on a piece with force points can work, and built in double attack isn't too bad for a 23 point Jedi. But overall, he feels like a jack-of-all-trades who doesn't fit comfortably into any competitive build. The Rebels and Old Republic feel like his best factions, where his Force Valor can supplement their low attacks, but even there Jolee hasn't made a ripple competitively. Jolee has some interesting potential uses, but he doesn't do anything well enough to see competitive play - I can think of another 23 point Fringe piece starting with J from the KOTOR set who is a lot stronger, 5/10.
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