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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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TheHutts wrote:I can think of another 23 point Fringe piece starting with J from the KOTOR set who is a lot stronger, 5/10. Oooh, wait, don't tell me... Junk Golem!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2011 Posts: 1,766 Location: In a sinkhole on Utapau
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CorellianComedian wrote:TheHutts wrote:I can think of another 23 point Fringe piece starting with J from the KOTOR set who is a lot stronger, 5/10. Oooh, wait, don't tell me... Junk Golem! The Force Unleashed
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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pegolego wrote:CorellianComedian wrote:TheHutts wrote:I can think of another 23 point Fringe piece starting with J from the KOTOR set who is a lot stronger, 5/10. Oooh, wait, don't tell me... Junk Golem! The Force Unleashed Yeah, that was supposed to be a joke, since the Junk Golem is obviously not what Hutts was referring to...
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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So glad this thread is still going. The brief hiatus had me worried. One of the very few reasons I still pop into Bloomilk these days.
You rock Graham!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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I would have ranked the High Breds a strong 7 or even an 8 before the (stupid friggin) Lah Warriors came out.
I ran this at the 2012 MI regional.
This squad should have beat the eventual winner and made the top 4, but the dummy running the squad (me) made MANY mistakes. Jason K (winner that year) agrees.
--We Are Warriors!-- 30 Supreme Overlord Quorreal 29 Domain Shai Subaltern 28 Nei Rin 27 Lobot 20 Yuuzhan Vong Hunter on Quednak 18 Praetorite Vong Priest 15 Yammosk War Coordinator 11 Advance Agent, Officer 22 Yuuzhan Vong High-bred Warrior x2
(200pts. 10 activations)
Way stronger (at the time) than it appears. Especially if you out-activate (not too uncommon at that time).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2011 Posts: 1,766 Location: In a sinkhole on Utapau
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CorellianComedian wrote:pegolego wrote:CorellianComedian wrote:TheHutts wrote:I can think of another 23 point Fringe piece starting with J from the KOTOR set who is a lot stronger, 5/10. Oooh, wait, don't tell me... Junk Golem! The Force Unleashed Yeah, that was supposed to be a joke, since the Junk Golem is obviously not what Hutts was referring to... Ah, I see. Carry on
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Zekk, from Command of the Galaxy Quote:31 points, New Republic Hit Points: 90 Defense: 18 Attack: 9 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Pilot Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets) Synergy +2 (+2 Attack and +2 Defense while an ally whose name contains Jaina is within 6 squares)
Force Powers Force 4 Dark Temptation (Force 1: +4 Attack and +20 Damage until the end of this character's turn. At the end of that turn, make a save of 11; if the save fails, this character joins the opponent's squad until the end of the skirmish.) Force Leap (Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity) Force Pull 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; Move target Large or smaller enemy adjacent to this character. Make an immediate attack against that enemy.) Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once)
Zekk is the kind of piece I love - a mid-cost Jedi who's basically all offense. He does have Stealth as a defense against shooters, but otherwise he's a smorgasbord of attacking options, helped by his twin attack. Pilot gives him access to a couple of key synergies - he can pick up Gregarious from Jagged Fel and Speed 8 and Evade from a Klatooinian Captain. But he's mainly about the attack. Dark Temptation allows him to reach 80 damage, albeit with significant risk attached, Force Pull 2 allows him to move an enemy piece into the midst of your own squad, and set up another piece for a big hit, while sweep allows him to put 40 damage on a group of fodder. Zekk hasn't seen a whole lot of tournament play, but he's a solid tool for the New Republic, and I'd certainly consider him in the right build, 8/10.
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Not to mention, he's got one of the coolest proxies in the game
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Twin Lightsaber Sweep is the Lawnmower with Borsk!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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I still think he has major untapped potential. Movement breakers are so big in our game, and when you combine Ganner's levitate with Zekk's pull, that could have a major impact. (Perhaps pull out a key piece for Han to blow away?)
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TimmerB123 wrote:I still think he has major untapped potential. Definitely! He's almost identical to Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight. She's one of the Republic's filler Jedi of choice, and it seems like she works really well as an extra attacker in many builds. Zekk has almost the same stuff going on, but arguably better support: greater range from Ganner, more starting force and can get renewal from any of the millions of NR pieces that give it out, Assault/Defense from Anakin (for the dreaded Twin Assault), etc. One of my favorite pieces the V-sets have ever made
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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IT-O Interrogator Droid, from Warfare and Subterfuge Quote:14 points, Imperial Hit Points: 40 Defense: 17 Attack: 10 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Doctrine of Fear (Enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 Attack) Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving) Jolt (An enemy hit by this character's attack is considered activated this round; save 11. Huge and larger characters ignore this effect.) Torture 2 (When an adjacent living enemy takes damage from an attack by this character, it gets -2 Attack and -2 Defense for the rest of the skirmish. (this ability stacks)) The Imperial faction aren't renowned for their droids, and have little to offer them in the way of support. So while the IT-O Interrogator Droid is a solid piece for 14 points, it doesn't have a great deal of synergy with the rest of the Imperial faction. It does have some neat tricks, however; Doctrine of Fear is always a surprisingly useful ability, although it's arguably better on Admiral Motti. Jolt does synergise with Thrawn's Master Tactician, giving the Interrogator the chance to activate a piece at the top of the round, while Torture 2 allows the Interrogator the chance to graze stats off an opposition piece - it seems more likely to work against the opponent's key shooter, since the +10 will struggle to hit a beat stick, especially as the beat stick will probably have defensive abilities as well. The IT-O Interrogator Droid is an interesting support piece, but it will probably struggle to see competitive game time, 6/10.
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In regards to your last sentence, can this guy even be brought in through Pellaeon? He's a droid and thus not subject to CEs right?
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Amadeus wrote:In regards to your last sentence, can this guy even be brought in through Pellaeon? He's a droid and thus not subject to CEs right? Sorry - I guess you're right about that. Shows how often droids get used in the Imperials, right?
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The commander effect references you the player and might be part of squadbuilding. you MIGHT be able to do it if you really wanted to, thats a question for Swinefeld though.
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Darth Vader, Agent of Evil, from Renegades and Rogues Quote:65 points, Imperial Hit Points: 140 Defense: 21 Attack: 14 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Immediate Imperial Reserves 20 (If you roll exactly 2, 7, 12, or 17 for initiative, you can add up to 20 points of Imperial trooper characters to your squad, adjacent to this character, immediately before your first activation of the round)
Force Powers Force 2 Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates) Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn) Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Lightsaber Riposte (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker) Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once) Sith Rage 2 (Force 2: +20 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Commander Effect Followers within 6 squares whose names contain Sandtrooper, Snowtrooper, or Stormtrooper gain Careful Shot +6 and Double Attack. Vader Agent of Evil is one of my favourite pieces in the game. He's not as strong a beat as other Vaders in his price range, although he still packs a punch with Sith Rage 2 and Riposte. But his biggest drawcard is his trooper reserves and his commander effect for troopers - giving them careful shot +6 and double attack means that some Troopers become powerful shooters. Being the Imperials, there are almost endless support options - either of the Thrawns, Piett for Opportunist, GARY for Cunning, Carnor Jax for a solid beat and Anticipation, Needa for rerolls, and CLobot for recon and reserve are all legitimate options for a Vader AoE squad. I've never really got Vader Agent of Evil to fire as a top tier competitive option; reserves are always difficult in competitive play, as they're unreliable and they can be neutered by the Muun Tactics Broker. But there are also ways to build and be less reliant on reserves - for instance, this Weeks build with four 501st Stormtroopers already included: Quote:--Stormtroopers on Parade-- 65 Darth Vader, Agent of Evil 32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) 27 Lobot 16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 12 Moff Jerjerrod 40 501st Legion Stormtrooper x4 8 Mas Amedda (200pts. 10 activations)
With the advent of Daala, Agent of Evil is less viable as a competitive option - the inbuilt movement breaker of Charging Fire is just so strong that it makes Vader's stand and deliver troopers weak in comparison, even though they're more thematically accurate. But he's still a piece that you can have a lot of fun with, and he's not completely unsuitable for competitive play either, 7/10.
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Young Krayt Dragon, from Bounty Hunters Quote:50 points, Fringe Hit Points: 140 Defense: 17 Attack: 12 Damage: 30
Special Abilities Savage (This character must end its move next to an enemy if it can and does not benefit from commander effects) Charging Assault +20 (Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +20 Damage against an adjacent enemy) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Speed 8 (Can move up to 8 squares and attack, or 16 squares without attacking) Rolling Mini of the Day covered the Sith Leviathan recently - the Leviathan is basically an improved version of this piece, and it received a 3/10 rating. The Young Krayt Dragon is Fringe and theoretically has access to a wider range of synergies, but since it's Savage, most of its best synergies are accessible in Fringe anyway - Celeste Morne is the most notable, along with Malakili, and it's always worth paying the extra 10 points for the Leviathan's extra speed, overwhelming power, and extra hit points, even if the Dragon's extra 2 attack is noteworthy. It's not completely bland and boring, but as a melee huge with a clearly superior piece in the same niche, the Young Krayt Dragon is a clear 1/10.
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Darth Vader, Champion of the SithQuote:50 points, Imperial Hit Points: 140 Defense: 22 Attack: 15 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Force Powers Force 4 Force Grip 1 (Force 1, replaces attacks: sight; 10 damage) Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Lightsaber Deflect (Force 1: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Commander Effect Once per turn, each follower within 6 squares may reroll 1 attack at +4 Attack and +10 Damage. If the result of the rerolled attack is a miss, the attacking character is defeated. Vader Champion of the Sith was probably a major player when he came out, but he looks difficult to utilise in a 200 point squad at this point. It's always difficult to use pieces that are combination attacker and commander, and in Vader's case, you're better going with Scourge or Lord Vader as an attacker. While if you want a similar CE, Captain Needa provides a comparable CE at only 11 points, and he fits nicely into Daala squads where there are lot of attackers to take advantage of the CE. There are some interesting builds with Vader CotS; this MasterShaper build uses Kel Dors, which are a good fit: Quote:--Exploding Incompetents-- 50 Darth Vader, Champion of the Sith 40 Emperor Palpatine 18 Moff Nyna Calixte 78 Kel Dor Bounty Hunter x6 8 Mas Amedda 6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2 (200pts. 12 activations) But there are far more efficient pieces to build around, even if Champion of the Sith is a good representation who feels like Vader, 3/10.
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TheHutts wrote:Young Krayt Dragon, from Bounty Hunters Quote:50 points, Fringe Hit Points: 140 Defense: 17 Attack: 12 Damage: 30
Special Abilities Savage (This character must end its move next to an enemy if it can and does not benefit from commander effects) Charging Assault +20 (Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +20 Damage against an adjacent enemy) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Speed 8 (Can move up to 8 squares and attack, or 16 squares without attacking) Rolling Mini of the Day covered the Sith Leviathan recently - the Leviathan is basically an improved version of this piece, and it received a 3/10 rating. The Young Krayt Dragon is Fringe and theoretically has access to a wider range of synergies, but since it's Savage, most of its best synergies are accessible in Fringe anyway - Celeste Morne is the most notable, along with Malakili, and it's always worth paying the extra 10 points for the Leviathan's extra speed, overwhelming power, and extra hit points, even if the Dragon's extra 2 attack is noteworthy. It's not completely bland and boring, but as a melee huge with a clearly superior piece in the same niche, the Young Krayt Dragon is a clear 1/10. This poor guy needs a remake
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The Jedi Exile, from Jedi Academy Quote:49 points, Old Republic Hit Points: 120 Defense: 20 Attack: 14 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Double Attack (On her turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Empathy (Allies with Savage within 6 squares lose Savage) Lightsaber Duelist (+4 Defense when attacked by an adjacent enemy with a Force rating)
Force Powers Force 2 Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time she activates) Force Defense (Force 3: Cancel a Force power used by a character within 6 squares) Force Repulse 3 (Force 3, replaces turn: 30 damage to all characters within 3 squares; push back Huge or smaller characters to 4 squares from this character. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 11.)
Commander Effect Allies within 6 squares gain Extra Attack. Like the 50 point Vader we just covered, the Jedi Exile is another difficult to utilise fighter/commander hybrid, albeit a lot more modern since she's from a much later WOTC set. It's very difficult to keep a 49 point piece out of the fight altogether, since it's a lot of points to leave on the sideline doing nothing, but the Jedi Exile isn't really robust enough to last long in the midst of combat. And while extra attack sounds excellent in theory, it's never quite as strong as it looks - it tends to work best with pieces that already have GMA, or in conjunction with the Revanchist's Ambush; it's often most effective with pieces like Twi'lek Black Sun Vigos or Atton 'Jaq' Rand. Given that most Old Republic squads will want to utilise Bastila Jedi Master, it's often hard to squeeze in another big commander who's not a great combatant for her cost. This FlyingArrow build, however, manages to use her to create 240 damage Bespin Security Guards: Quote:--Cloud City-- 49 The Jedi Exile 42 The Revanchist 33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master 15 Jabba, Crime Lord 13 Bespin Guard Captain 13 Czerka Scientist 28 Bespin Security Guard x4 3 Mouse Droid 3 Ugnaught Demolitionist (199pts. 12 activations) Extra attack is a very useful CE for some builds, and the Jedi Exile is a capable enough fighter, but a lot of OR builds will struggle to squeeze her in, 7/10.
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