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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/25/2008 Posts: 536 Location: Tracy, CA
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xpraider wrote:
In a dedicated tournament situation a cheap win is still a win using the rules provided to the players. Lock out wins may be considered cheap and bad form, but the point of the game in a tournament is to win. If you aren't going for the win you aren't really playing correctly (that doesn't mean I encourage cheating though). Sometimes a situation will arise in which the only way to win is to run out the clock. It's happened to me, and I've done it to other players.
So that's what you want the competitive game to be like? Ugly, drawn out games where cheap wins are the only wins? Man, that does not sound like fun for anyone. If anything, that is a recipe for gaming disaster. Going for the win shouldn't equate to cheap play. Even the good players don't mind engaging the enemy even though they know they are ahead in points with the game nearing a close. They realize that adds a kick to the game (for both players). Cheap wins do not support the gaming community. Solid tactics and good gamesmanship should.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/21/2009 Posts: 406
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direct damge is one of the most useful teams. I prefer the old thrawn with the desciples ragnos. It is a very good anti-GOWK counter, And if played with certan shooter could be hard to beat
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/25/2008 Posts: 536 Location: Tracy, CA
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Doogle126 wrote:direct damge is one of the most useful teams. I prefer the old thrawn with the desciples ragnos. It is a very good anti-GOWK counter, And if played with certan shooter could be hard to beat I am somewhat hesitant to use GAT with the Disciples. I love that Force Bubble, but it means Thrawn has to keep his distance from the Disciples (when they are using Force Powers). In today's game, that kind of defeats the purpose of using GAT. Effectively using that Force Bubble is huge. IE Thrawn seems like a better fit. Apart from the Defense/Attack boost, I like him better with the Disciples.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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Tirade wrote:xpraider wrote:
In a dedicated tournament situation a cheap win is still a win using the rules provided to the players. Lock out wins may be considered cheap and bad form, but the point of the game in a tournament is to win. If you aren't going for the win you aren't really playing correctly (that doesn't mean I encourage cheating though). Sometimes a situation will arise in which the only way to win is to run out the clock. It's happened to me, and I've done it to other players.
So that's what you want the competitive game to be like? Ugly, drawn out games where cheap wins are the only wins? Man, that does not sound like fun for anyone. If anything, that is a recipe for gaming disaster. Going for the win shouldn't equate to cheap play. Even the good players don't mind engaging the enemy even though they know they are ahead in points with the game nearing a close. They realize that adds a kick to the game (for both players). Cheap wins do not support the gaming community. Solid tactics and good gamesmanship should. Exactly. I find it interesting that xpraider is using the banner of help the newbie, yet is not worried about these tactics. If anything, these experiences will kill their interest off faster than finding out that Obi is banned. Negative Play Experiences are the bane of any game, and I do not want this game to require them. The debate isn't whether the top players can adapt, it is how fun the enviroment is. And with the meta being the stalest it has been, can you really wonder why I don't want to play in Regionals this Gencon?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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Sithborg wrote: Exactly. I find it interesting that xpraider is using the banner of help the newbie, yet is not worried about these tactics. If anything, these experiences will kill their interest off faster than finding out that Obi is banned. Negative Play Experiences are the bane of any game, and I do not want this game to require them. The debate isn't whether the top players can adapt, it is how fun the enviroment is. And with the meta being the stalest it has been, can you really wonder why I don't want to play in Regionals this Gencon?
Exactly. And to add to it. He mentioned that "going for the win sometimes requires these tactics". Well I agree. I wrote an entire article about it. The difference with Obi is that these become your only optional tactics with anything other than Hate. You either play it this way from the start, knowing exactly what you have to do, or you lose. That has never been the case in the past. The equivalent is looking at a squad, knowing you have a 2% chance of beating it outright, and so from the very start of the game, you are trying for a lockout. That is not what we should want the game to come down to. Sure, the score is 78-65 late in the game, with say 5 minutes left, you have a 30hp beat left on the board, you decide to run him as far as possible. That's a perfectly acceptable tactic at that point in time (although some would argue with you even then to be honest). However, in a normal game, you were not committed to this running from the very start as your only viable winning option. That makes the games very boring, and will lead to people quitting the game. The DCI rules are used to keep everyone playing the same rules for fair play. Obi doesn't foster a situation where fair play is encouraged. Hence why he needs to go from DCI play.
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Rank: Mandalorian Commander Groups: Member
Joined: 6/25/2009 Posts: 27 Location: Nebraska
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Tirade wrote:xpraider wrote:
In a dedicated tournament situation a cheap win is still a win using the rules provided to the players. Lock out wins may be considered cheap and bad form, but the point of the game in a tournament is to win. If you aren't going for the win you aren't really playing correctly (that doesn't mean I encourage cheating though). Sometimes a situation will arise in which the only way to win is to run out the clock. It's happened to me, and I've done it to other players.
So that's what you want the competitive game to be like? Ugly, drawn out games where cheap wins are the only wins? Man, that does not sound like fun for anyone. If anything, that is a recipe for gaming disaster. Going for the win shouldn't equate to cheap play. Even the good players don't mind engaging the enemy even though they know they are ahead in points with the game nearing a close. They realize that adds a kick to the game (for both players). Cheap wins do not support the gaming community. Solid tactics and good gamesmanship should. I have Played MTG for MANY years.. have qualified ect.. I also have played hero clix for many years.. both those games are on the complete oppisite end of the spectrum.. MTG is cut throat.. and HC was always about the fun.. Teaching others and the group.. witch one of these was more enjoyable? the one whre someone called judge when i accedently knocked over my own deck? or the the game where the guy saw me make a mistake and explained to me what i could do to fix it? I was also a judge for 3 years.. so i seen the cruel conduct of mtg players at all levels.. from casual fridays to pro ams... But i have also seen the effects of "Broken" "un-countered" pieces in a game... and it does nothing but hurt it.. it stalls the diversity of team builds... bores players and puts a strangle hold on the market.(exception is GOWK being from a starter). So DCI balances the world.. makes it spin(some what easier).. and takes away the things that bore the exprianced and detour the inexperianced.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 217
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... so its july 3rd is he banned or not?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009 Posts: 360
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yes he is.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 217
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effective when?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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When the floor rules are updated. That should be next week sometime apparently. Nickname is out of town on vacation and word from Sarah is they want to talk some things over with him before they post. So sit and wait, should be sometime next week I presume.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/3/2008 Posts: 498 Location: somewhere over the rainbow (a rainbow in Indiana)
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can we close this thread now?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 239 Location: Germany
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Oh no, thats a bad day for the Republic. now we have back the pure Rebel era. since 2 years there are 8 players with rebel squads in the top 8 of german championships. and now we have it again and its unbalanced than ever (Rieekan, Dodonna)
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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TK-4334 wrote:Oh no, thats a bad day for the Republic. now we have back the pure Rebel era. since 2 years there are 8 players with rebel squads in the top 8 of german championships. and now we have it again and its unbalanced than ever (Rieekan, Dodonna) Yes, because Clone Wars and Jedi Academy did NOTHING for the Republic faction. Seriously, I think it may be because the Rebels are popular with the good players in your country. Yodabuck swap should be able to handle most Rebel squads.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 239 Location: Germany
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I think Yoda is a playable char. perhaps it can replace GOWK a little.
The Problem is Luke´s Snowspeeder its horrible to play against. he can go everywere he wants and do a twin atk. with Rieeken and dmg reduction he will still life long enough to kill important members. dodonna ist a problem too. Rebels have all attribute for low point cost. there ist no other squad to handel a good snowspeeder squad in my opinion other than GOWK.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/1/2008 Posts: 105
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TK-4334 wrote:I think Yoda is a playable char. perhaps it can replace GOWK a little.
The Problem is Luke´s Snowspeeder its horrible to play against. he can go everywere he wants and do a twin atk. with Rieeken and dmg reduction he will still life long enough to kill important members. dodonna ist a problem too. Rebels have all attribute for low point cost. there ist no other squad to handel a good snowspeeder squad in my opinion other than GOWK. Pfft, forget Rebels. GGDAC's in the house!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 239 Location: Germany
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U never could win against such a rebel quad with GGDAC. NEVER, i hate it too, because i like GGDAC and i don´t like rebels, but fact is, that there are now the strongest faction again.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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If only Republic had a good shooter with Penetration...
Look, without GOWK, Rebels become a viable faction beyond just Push. But a ton of other stuff gets better that can handle Rebels. The Snowspeeder is a pain, sure, but it can be dealt with. Too many things get viable to worry about one squad. There is plenty that will be able to take on the Rebels.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/17/2009 Posts: 129
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Sithborg wrote:If only Republic had a good shooter with Penetration...
Oh my god yes. I will blow the hell out of you with Oddball.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 239 Location: Germany
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Sithborg wrote:If only Republic had a good shooter with Penetration... hm sure, but Rex is first turn down, if u play rebels with Dodonna u have enought activations left to charge to capacity every republic squad. than speeder an leia combo kills Rex easiely. Odd Ball is an idea perhaps with Dash Rendar!?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/17/2009 Posts: 129
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TK-4334 wrote:Sithborg wrote:If only Republic had a good shooter with Penetration... hm sure, but Rex is first turn down, if u play rebels with Dodonna u have enought activations left to charge to capacity every republic squad. than speeder an leia combo kills Rex easiely. Odd Ball is an idea perhaps with Dash Rendar!? i wasn't being serious when i said oddball but you probably figured that out, though the idea of dash hadn't occured to me
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