Why the third thread?
Why do you fail against some pretty hard counters?
Why does everyone take one game as a sure fire example?

I should definately start a thread complaining about CS Yoda taking off half the HPs of my Reek on an AoO.
And should definately start a thread about my Ugnaught dealing 40 to Luke JM when with CS Sidious.

What kind of cheese? Is he a Cheddar Monk?

Yes, it is pretty reliable that Mace will get crits in a game. Multiple crits, most likely. What I have a problem is that the reliability of him getting more than one crit in a turn is low, which makes his damage output actually good for the cost. And there is no way to control when those crits will happen. Does it really matter if gets 3 crits on a turn, when he is merely attempting to finish someone off with 60 HPs or less?

Yes, there will be examples of him absolutely devastating something. But we've had that since Bounty Hunters. The main thing is, he is actually a bit more playable than Boba, BH. And again, there are some pretty hard counters to him. What happens when he faces Droids? Or Saesee Tiin, JM (actually pretty cool with the Klatoonian Captain)? Or even Durge, JH?

This Mace Windu is as much luck as Immediate Reserves are. You can do whatever you can to up your odds, but nothing is gaurenteed. And with Reserve squads, you can up the probabilty up really, really high. But it is still risky.

Not making any judgements about any playing group.

I am not denying Mace is powerful. He is. He can be absolutely devasting when the rolls go his way. I'm just saying, that he isn't as absolute as many are saying. Yes, he should get multiple crits in a game. But people really needs to look at when the crits happen, much like Disentegration. Mace is much more likely to be finishing someone off, than taking out a full HP enemy. A lot of people don't like Boba, BH for a lot of the same reasons.

The only sure-fire way to take him down is with shooters. Considering a ton of popular shooters nowadays have the classical Double/Twin/GMobile, Mace, if left even for one round in the open, will definitely take a beating. His LS Deflect costs 2 FP to use, and has only a 25% chance to deal a wimpy 10 damage to the oppposing attacker. However, I can see him mostly being used in a swap squad, which IMHO will make him possibly more deadly than even a B&B squad. Imagine him in a swap squad with Gen Skywalker, Pancakes, and Dash Smuggler (and R2 + Comm Ahsoka for funn). Tow Mace, run him up to an opponent for Triple @ 30 damage a pop. If he kills an opponent, he can roll out and start a fight with another opponent. Swap Dash in to clean things up with Double/Twin Momentum, and of course with Rolling Cleave as well if you are using Ahsoka. Ouch.

NEWindu is like soo many previous great pieces, love 'em in your squad, hate 'em in the opponents

Thought I'd weigh in on the Mace Windu debate.

I'm pro V-set. I defend the V-set and support it whenever possible. When I first heard about Windu's stats, my friend kept going on about how over powered he was, and I defended him. Saying "Hey if he doesn't roll a crit, he's not that bad."

Then I played the new Mace. Me and another friend of mine, who is a huge Mace Windu fan, sat down and played close to 20 matches. We took a full 24 hours and did nothing but play minis. There was 2 matches out of all of them where Mace did not land a crit and decimate my entire squad.

Now, I'm not a newb, and I've been playing minis for a while. I consider myself a pretty good player, I've placed pretty high at every regional I've played in. My friend on the other hand hasn't played minis since MoTF, and he didn't get to play all that much back then. So I have way more experience, and he can come in with this piece and just beat me like it's not a big deal.

We played the next day without Mace, and he lost.

You can say whatever you will about Mace, that's he's just right, that he's not as bad as certain people make out. But he is that bad. I think you will see that at Regionals, and any other competitive event. I can certainly see why certain groups are banning him.

My thoughts is that he is over powered, and under costed, and in no way shape or form is this me complaining because I actually like the piece. HOWEVER, I think there should be checks and balances. I feel the same way about Bastila. As is she can shut down all commander effects, board wide for almost the entire game, while giving everyone in her squad a plus 10 dmg. I've suggested a force power for the Sith to counter her, to interrupt her Battle Meditation.

I think that there needs to be a counter as well for Mace. If Mace didn't have Force Absorb I think he would be just fine. Then at least Mara Jedi would have a legit shot at killing him, New Darth Maul would have a good shot. I mean he would have counters, that kept him in check. As is, he's just too powerful.

And that's OK for now, because it's a challenge to take him down. I haven't complained about him, because I believe that the designers will provide said counter to Mace. They have done a remarkable job continuing the game since MoTF. And have done a better job than Wizards in my opinion. The game is way more exciting now.

But that's my thoughts, over powered and undercosted, but fun to try and take down. Mace is fine for now, but needs a counter.

Mace, why the hell are you so weak?

Why did you die in the third round after taking two rounds of fire from Cad Bane before even getting to swing your lightsaber?

Why did you die before even reaching gambit?

Why did I not roll above a 16?

He is probably the least cheesy mini I know of.

I've always been against banning pieces, but in this new era without WotC where we don't currently have a system in place to report local tournaments nationally, I think if local groups want to ban a figure from play because the group thinks he is broken, go for it. Right now it is important we keep the game alive and growing locally.

However, regarding a national solution on a figure that local groups say is broken but national playtesters say is not, I think for now we should give those playtesters the benefit of the doubt. If regional play results show they were wrong, then that may be the time to reconsider. The playtesters did pretty well getting DotF on the table and regional play saw a lot of balance this year, not only with factions but also with players choosing to use Vset figures and those who didn't.

So...locally, if Mace is ruining your day, shelve him. Nationally, let's just wait and watch.

LOL! this made me laugh because with all the support mace windu has, if you let mace die before he gets to declare an attack something is terribly wrong. and getting to gambit seriously he can get there first round so easily it makes me sick. Anyways on to parry, yeah parry is a good counter to Mace windu, and anyone else with melee attack, but let's face it even with parry none of the characters mentioned that have it are near as good as Mace.