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Solid Squad Bases - before Vengeance Options
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:42:36 AM
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Before Destiny of the Force dropped in late 2010, there were threads about what the current competitive squads were. In a thread before Destiny of the Force came out, these squads were generally accepted as top:
- Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) swap squads
- Princess Leia cannon squads
- Yoda on Kybuck swap squads
- Ganner + Mara + either Han GH or KKJBM
- GGDAC + Lancer + Sidious (there was more debate about whether this belonged or not)

Looking at Gencon results from 2011, the main thing that changed in the top 8 was the addition of a Bastila beef squad which went on to win - the Republic and New Republic squads made up the majority of the remainder of the top 8 and were similar to what was run in the previous year. So from Destiny of the Force, we can add:
- Beefy Bastila squads

With lots more pieces from Renegades and Rogues, have there been any more additions to what would could potentially make the top 8 at GenCon? Old Republic Bastila squads gets lots more options (especially with good shooters), but it's still based around Bastila...
- C3PO/R2-D2 and Winter open up some other New Republic builds without Ganner/Mara etc, like http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108267/promote-synergy--like-a-boss-
- Sith with Darth Zannah, now she's set to get a boost from Soresu Style Mastery. I have no idea what the best Zannah squad is - maybe something with Traya, Atton 'Jaq' Rand, and Exar Kun DFS?

Is this a good list of squads that you would consider bringing to GenCon if it was held this month, or are there other strong options too? I just like discussing the meta, and I was interested in knowing what people thought now, since it's not too long until Vengeance drops.
kezzamachine
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:34:24 AM
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I think you might want to rephrase the question as "what squad will win LowerHuttaCon in March" - bahahaha! (The answer is 'whatever I run'...)

In all seriousness, good question - I'd like to incorporate something like this into the magazine at some point.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:58:33 AM
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kezzamachine wrote:
In all seriousness, good question - I'd like to incorporate something like this into the magazine at some point.


If you must. Personally, I like to ease into Save11 tournaments with first round games against squads with no door control. It's like stretching before a run.....
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:03:53 AM
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Are the new floor rules released? I missed that if so. Is it final that SSM is reverting back to what's on the card. If so, Zannah is beast.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:11:16 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Are the new floor rules released? I missed that if so. Is it final that SSM is reverting back to what's on the card. If so, Zannah is beast.


I don't think the floor rules have been released yet, but they've been discussing it on SHNN. I played a game against Zannah with full SSM on last night - she took a lot of taking down, but I got her eventually. I think it adds another dimension - you can't just lob Mara Jade Jedi in and get an auto-kill as easily or have Yobuck drop 60 on a piece automatically. (I know that Soresu Style Mastery worked against Mara before, but there'll be more Soresu Style Mastery pieces being played now).
TheHutts
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 10:06:52 AM
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They talked about this thread on Sith Holonetwork News yesterday. Some things that got mentioned:

- Rebels aren't necessarily top-tier anymore, with all the Old Republic floating around
- Imperials have some new good builds - like Storm Commandos with Force Bubble are a good counter to Bastila (and a squad like this won Wampa Stompa)
- Vong are getting more and more viable too (I think they're a good meta call at the moment, since most of the Jedi-based factions are strong).
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 12:24:50 PM
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How far did the Atris Accurate Echanis go at GenCon? Incredibly powerful, but perhaps an autoloss versus Atris. If so, they don't get past the gatekeeper.
countrydude82487
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 6:23:10 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
How far did the Atris Accurate Echanis go at GenCon? Incredibly powerful, but perhaps an autoloss versus Atris. If so, they don't get past the gatekeeper.


i played them and ended up about 50/50. they do well against alot of squads, stealth n blue, solo charge, even single lancer. THey do fall short though against Yobuck, The double lancer, and Bastilla. those are what i lost to at gencon
TheHutts
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 8:03:09 PM
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Are you guys playing Palleon with the Echanis?

Pallaeon-based squads seem pretty viable, although maybe the Storm Commandos are best, as they can stand up to the Lancer and Yobuck with their shields, and can access Super Stealth as well.
Weeks
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:22:30 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
How far did the Atris Accurate Echanis go at GenCon? Incredibly powerful, but perhaps an autoloss versus Atris. If so, they don't get past the gatekeeper.


It's a good squad. It's got tough matchups vs Yobuck, lancer, and bastilla. Those 3 are also pretty popular so echani will remain a gimmicky but potent squad.
countrydude82487
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 5:58:29 AM
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TheHutts wrote:
Are you guys playing Palleon with the Echanis?

Pallaeon-based squads seem pretty viable, although maybe the Storm Commandos are best, as they can stand up to the Lancer and Yobuck with their shields, and can access Super Stealth as well.

THe only reason i didnt have pelleon in it was that he was too hard to fit in. In order to fit him in i would have to take out something important like veers, jabba or an echani.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:42:04 AM
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In my opinion as long as OR builds figure prominently in the meta, Pellaeon has to be a fixture in Imperial builds. Better to have one less CE or attacker than to play against the OR with a lot of useless CEs. So I guess the question really is, how powerful/ popular will the OR be?
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:54:54 PM
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I'm not sure why you guys are having problems beating Yobuck or Lancer with Echanis.

Against Yobuck they can't keep everything hidden and unless you bunch all your guys up should be ok. The accurate shot is what wins you the day in this matchup as well as being able to always go first. Basically they can run yobuck and swap which means that they can only go 24 and you keep away form him or if they swap yobuck up and then run and do damage with him you should be able to kill him with a maximum loss of 1 echani.

Against Lancer, just ask Ruhk how difficult it can be, and we were on his map. You just have to make sure you keep all the stuff spread out. Accurate will again help you win the day. Against Lancer you just lock everyone in a room and run atris around and if they ever give you an opening you unlock the door swap in a trade an echani for a lancer. If they are running MTB they slowly kill themselves while you are doing your thing and if not then you can set up some good lancer-killing shots with the Echanis at 15/30 so all it takes is 2 shots to kill a lancer.

OR is by far the most difficult and its because you only get 1 fully pumped activation every other round once bastilla has started doing her thing. Depending on the the exact squad this can be almost unbeatable.

The big problems with Echanis are that as stated beffore you can't fit in palleon without making the squad tons weaker vs everything else and even the bubble doesn't gaurentee a win vs OR. The loss of the third attacker means you lose to many more of the squads that are out there.
adamb0nd
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:43:02 PM
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Off topic. ill start a new thread on this comment.
jak
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:48:27 AM
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I prefer to use Basilla, rather than try to counter her.Her ability to nerf CE's and give + 10 dmg makes her, for now , the best piece in the game.IMOUnsure Other V-set OR pieces contribute to making it the faction to beat.
Seers counter Yobuck & lancers well. New Hoth's CE is wicked, especially with accurate shooters. Hoth and Basilla combine to give a +20 dmg vs adjacent opponents.ThumbsUp I justHeart Wub the OR now!
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 8:52:58 AM
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I played some interesting games last night that reminded me of this thread.

Playing against accurate Echanis with Bastila last night, it's totally an auto-loss. The other player did well to take down a Battlemaster. Maybe Jabba or Thrawn need to go to make way for Pallaeon?

I also played against Storm Commandos and Weir for the first time, and I think they probably have enough good matchups to be heading up towards tier 1. They are luck dependent though - you need good rolls with your attack maxing out at 10, and with the shield saves.
Sashlon
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:08:13 AM
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Does anyone think we'll see GoBuck return?
Yoto_Yoto
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:03:49 PM
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I've been playing Jorus C'boath, Super Stealthed Kel-Dor bounty hunters, Thrawn, Mas, Ozzel, & filler for about a month. It's done very well locally. How's it doing where ya'll are?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:10:16 PM
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Are there no tier 1 Sith options currently? I would think there would be, but I don't know.
DARPH NADER
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2012 1:18:30 PM
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I maybe a bit biased here but I do prefer the Storm Commandos against most builds. The point TheHutts made about them being luck dependent is true but that can also be said of the 80/20 Vaapad lure of Mace LoTLS.

I'd consider them a tier 1 but I guess I don't necessarily think you need to have the bubble/s in play for exactly the reason the urbanjedi brings up. The loss of the third SC limits the output potential against non-OR squads and certain reinforcements against Bastila addresses her ABM. By careful positioning of a Czerka and with MT from Thrawn, they still can get the 10/30 double/twin. However a Mira/Bastila squad is a very tall order to beat without at least Pellaeon in the build.

To some of the other questions posed. With the renaissance of SSM, I think we'll see lots of Zannah love and even more GOWK.
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