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I was looking at the FAQ and trying to figure this out for myself, but I wasn't sure. So could I get an answer and possibly a quick explanation? So if a Death Watch Saboteur rerolls an attack, using Pre Vizsla's CE, and the DW Saboteur rolls a 1, is he defeated or does he join the opponent's squad?
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Interesting question indeed. IMO I would think Pre's CE would supersede IS and additionally then the Sabby would go boom.
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EDIT: What I wrote here is wrong.
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If they are simultaneous effects, which I believe they are, then you get to choose the order. If he switches sides, he is no longer subject to the CE, so he would clearly no longer have Self-Destruct 10. The part about being defeated was initiated before switching sides by taking an extra reroll. I'm not sure about whether he would still be defeated if he's no longer on your side, but I would guess not because that's dirty pool to hand someone a piece only to immediately claim points for defeating it.
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Good question. It has me looking at the Resolving Effects section of the FAQ and it has brought up some questions.
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They are not simultaneous. "Determining the Attack Roll"/rolling a 1, happens before the "When Hit/Missed" effects.
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Sithborg wrote:They are not simultaneous. "Determining the Attack Roll"/rolling a 1, happens before the "When Hit/Missed" effects. Okay, so if the re-roll is a 1, they definitely switch sides. What about being defeated? It could be read a few different ways... a) The condition "If the result of the rerolled attack is a miss, the attacking character is defeated" is applied at the point the attack is declared and is carried out even if the character switches sides. b) The condition is part of the CE, and since the character is no longer subject to the CE when checking for hit/missed effects, the character is not defeated. c) After the character switches sides, the attack is effectively canceled and "when hit/missed" effects are not resolved at all. I'm guessing it's not (a).
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If this is a timing sequencing situation, then I guess I look at it similar to the Ferus Olin situation. Whereby Ferus (oops) fails his Dark Temptation with a low hp total remaining, this then then turns into scuttling for points. The difference here is that the Ferus example is generally desired outcome.
However in this instance IMO, the non-boom after rolling the natural 1, nerfs Pre's CE. Despite the transition to the opposing side.
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When a character changes sides through Betrayal or Internal Strife, the attack is cancelled. Thus you never get to the point to where you check to see if the attack missed/hit, so the CE can never fully resolve.
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Sithborg wrote:When a character changes sides through Betrayal or Internal Strife, the attack is cancelled. Thus you never get to the point to where you check to see if the attack missed/hit, so the CE can never fully resolve. Thanks SB, wouldn't want this to have come up at FrostyCon and be off target on a potential ruling.
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Sithborg wrote:When a character changes sides through Betrayal or Internal Strife, the attack is cancelled. Thus you never get to the point to where you check to see if the attack missed/hit, so the CE can never fully resolve. Thanks, Sithborg.
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Sithborg wrote:When a character changes sides through Betrayal or Internal Strife, the attack is cancelled. Thus you never get to the point to where you check to see if the attack missed/hit, so the CE can never fully resolve. I just wanted to be sure I understood the reasoning on this (since someone mentioned on the SHN podcast chat to know and memorize resolving attacks  ) When a character rolls a 1, this occurs at step 7 correct? And at this point Internal Strife occurs. Step 9 is when checking to see if the attack hits, and this step is never reached because it is superseded by Internal Strife. But in regular situations, step 9 is when the "automatic miss" rules is applied. Do I have that all correct?
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No. Step IX is where you determine the roll, and any effects based on the roll, in this case, Internal Strife. Step X is where you determine effects based on "when hit/missed", in this case, Vizla's CE.
While Step VII is where you get the roll, resolving the effects of the roll happen slightly later.
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Ah ok, I went back and took a look at it again. I think I got it. I think.....if I don't at least I know where to go for answers. Thanks a bunch.
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What happens if a Death Watch Saboteur gets a "deathshot" from Jaster Mereel and rolls a 1? Would internal strife still trigger, even though the character has already technically been defeated?
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Great question... Funny enough I rolled two 1's against Chris Cook when we had our Mando on Mando hate sessions a few weeks back. 
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Hinkbert wrote:What happens if a Death Watch Saboteur gets a "deathshot" from Jaster Mereel and rolls a 1? Would internal strife still trigger, even though the character has already technically been defeated? You would resolve Internal Strife, then finish the defeat resolution. In other words, he changes sides then is removed from the board.
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So the player who originally had the Saboteur in his squad would get the points since he's technically no longer in his squad?
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Yes.
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I assume Dark Temptation works the same way, then? If so, I think this should be changed. If not, consider... Beth Allusis, Jedi Master Covenant Hand x5 15 points of whatever. As long as the Covenant Hands can base opponents... whenever they die they get a +18/40 dmg death shot and a 50% chance that you get points for your own character dying. (50 dmg if you drop one for Bastila.) Getting points when your own character dies - who never spends a single activation on the other side - is just dirty pool. It'd be annoying to see it happen for Internal Strife, but that's only 1 out of 20 chance. With Dark Temptation, you could make a strategy out of it.
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FlyingArrow wrote:I assume Dark Temptation works the same way, then? If so, I think this should be changed. If not, consider... Beth Allusis, Jedi Master Covenant Hand x5 15 points of whatever. As long as the Covenant Hands can base opponents... whenever they die they get a +18/40 dmg death shot and a 50% chance that you get points for your own character dying. (50 dmg if you drop one for Bastila.) Getting points when your own character dies - who never spends a single activation on the other side - is just dirty pool. It'd be annoying to see it happen for Internal Strife, but that's only 1 out of 20 chance. With Dark Temptation, you could make a strategy out of it. No, the timing is different with Dark Temptation. The switch happens at the end of the turn the attack is made, and the defeat happens before that occurs, whereas Betrayal/Internal Strife are immediate. On a sidenote, the timing of this would not change, even if it did allow the combo you were suggesting. The Resolving Effects section cannot be mucked with, especially considering how much Nickname put into it.
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