WOW could you make a game more lopsided 20 plus activations makes for a longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ASS boring game get a freaking clue and make a squad that has some sort of synergy and flow to the game I am so tired of playing against 20+ activation squads on vassal do you have any idea how boring that is. I know this is going to piss some people off but I cant stand the idea of sitting though a game with that many activations I almost want to vomit every time I see someone setting up 20 + miniatures against me.

It's a product of competition - as people play a game competitively, they figure out strategies to win. In Star Wars Miniatures being able to move pieces after your opponent has moved their last piece can be very helpful, especially for some squads like Rebel cannon squads based aroud Han Solo Smuggler with Opportunist, and Lord Vader with Opportunist.

From http://www.atlantaswg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130:squad-construction-part-2&catid=34:swm&Itemid=29:


I like running low activation squads, but you have to make sure you can take whatever your opponent throws at you, after you've finished for the round.

It's good having diversity too - you can have a tank squad with 7 activations, a swarm with 30 activations, or something in between, and they can all be good squads with a shot at winning.

It's also something that the people making the vsets are continuously addressing - for example, the GenCon 2010 final was played between a 25 maximum activation squad:

--Smug Commandos (2010 Gencon Champion Squad)--
27 Han Solo, Smuggler
27 Lobot
27 Luke Skywalker, Rebel Commando
20 Princess Leia
32 Elite Rebel Commando x2
16 General Crix Madine
14 General Rieekan
12 Gha Nachkt
9 General Dodonna
8 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Spirit
8 Mouse Droid x4

And a 20 activation maximum squad:
--Gimp Imps--
71 Lord Vader
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
23 Jarael
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
5 Imperial Dignitary
21 Rodian Brute x7
(198pts. 14 activations)

And it was hard for squads without a lot of activations, or without Yobuck or a Lancer to even out the activations, to compete. While now there are some good counters, like Momaw Nadon and Wuher, to stop the game devolving into an activation competition, and low activation squads are doing decently again.

You can always enforce time limits.

I feel your pain.
Got to say high end teens & 20+ activations is boardering on slow play IMO.

"I can build you a squad to put you to sleep, then I'll smother you and win YEY. go me"

Imposing a time limit doesnt realy help either. Your still going to get out activated. It's nothing to do with skill in those matches.
The only thing you can do is hide your pieces and wait for them to come to you, then you get accused of slow play, bah!

Its a trap indeed.

Exactly. There is an important fact that people need to understand: Playing more activations should NOT make a game last any longer. When you start a game, tell your opponent that you'd like to finish the game in an hour. Then if you have 8 activations and they have 25, you both have to play in under an hour. You should average one round at least every 8 minutes or so; that will give you about 7 and a half rounds in a an hour, which is alright (not stellar, but respectable). If you have 8 activations, that means you can average 1 minute per activation (obviously don't take this time every time you activate every piece, it's important that it's an average). The guy with 25 actions shouldn't be playing the same speed per activation as you, he needs to be playing approximately the same speed per round as you; if you're taking a minute per activation, he needs to be taking 19.2 seconds per activation; so he should be doing his activations basically 3 times as fast as you are. If he is, then you can't complain about the speed at all, he's playing just as fast as you are, just deal with the fact that he has more activations than you. If he's trying to take 1 minute per activation with 25 activations, yeah, he's playing super slowly and needs to speed up.

If you play without a time limit, I don't think you have a leg to stand on when complaining about play speed unless it's REALLY bad (like a game taking over 2 hours). That's basically implying "I don't care how long this game takes".


And if you don't like losing to high activation squads, play a squad that can kill many characters in one turn. If they have a bunch of 10 point scrubs, bring in Momaw Nadon. Or just play Yobuck, or Lancer. Or play Anakin Solo, or Arica. If your squad can't deal in some way with being outactivated by a bunch, that's a problem with your squad, because lots of squads (even low-act ones) can easily beat high-act squads.

In my experience, most games can be finished pretty easily in under an hour. Rarely do I see games taking the full hour, whether it's between casual games at the local store or finals games at a regional. It happens, though; sometimes time will be called and you'll be down on points but in the strategically better position. It sucks to lose that way (knowing that in another 2 rounds you could have pulled out a win), but you start to develop the skill of being aware of how much time has passed and how much time is left, even if subconsciously, and you can start playing with that knowledge if you know that you aren't going to finish in under an hour. It just adds another variable to worry about, because you have to start playing the short game.

At GenCon in 2010 Jake Shuler and I EACH had 20 activations on the table in a game. We played 11 rounds and when time was called we had less than 5 pieces on the table combined. Great game, and quality play wasn't sacrificed just because we didn't labor over moves.

The real issue is slow play, not activations... whether it's a timed game or not.

If you are playing a squad that is susceptible to being out activated, you should build a solution into the squad. A few have been mentioned already. There are ways to deal with mouse walls, bombs, and CE heavy swarms... most of which can be accessed through Lobot.