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Help me, Bloomilky-Kenobi, you are my only hope! Options
kezzamachine
Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:37:26 PM
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Yo.

Well, in six weeks time, we will be hosting the First Ever New Zealand SWM Tournament! If that in itself was not cool enough, we are going beyond the Save11 borders and introducing players who have been playing for year to the modern game - namely Vsets! However, as you can imagine, in to their LGS walks some weirdo from the Hutt telling them that there's 200 new characters to the game that are legal despite the fact that WotC stopped making the game two years ago and that they've got 6 weeks to understand this! Hmmm.

So, my quest is to give them the best info I can to bring them up to speed. Obviously they are not going to be able to learn everything in that time, nor try out the myriad of permeatations that the Vsets are presenting, but I can try to tell them some highlights, what to run or look for, how factions have changed etc.

That is where you fine fellows come in. I'd like 10 volunteers to take a faction each and write a quick 'this is what has happen to the faction since the introduction of the Vsets' which includes the top 5-6 pieces that have changed it, so that I can circulate this to our extra-Save11 players. Who wants to help? It doesn't have to be a novel! Just what to look out for. How you write it is up to your!

With much appreciation,
kez(zamachine)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:22:48 PM
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OLD REPUBLIC

The Old Republic is essentially an entirely new faction with the Vsets. Kind of understandable considering the faction wasn't top-level competitive to begin with. Here are the highlights...

TWO KEY PIECES...

Bastila Shan, Jedi Master - THE piece for the faction. Cancel all of the opponents' CEs, a damage bonus, and a decent beatstick for clean-up at the end of the game. While this is the key piece for the faction, it's also important for everyone else to be aware of her presence, as she can really mess up the day of a CE-dependent squad. So regardless of your faction, keep her in mind. Use CEs, but have a plan for how to live without them for 75% of a match vs OR.

Atton 'Jaq' Rand - Override on a main attacker makes him almost (but not quite) an auto-include.

These are the key pieces because they are tech along with attacking power.


Beyond those two, there are multiple options for how to build an OR squad. Some of the options...

Revanchist+Jedi Exile: Grants Ambush and Extra Attack to the squad - a great combination.

Carth Onasi + Saul Karath + Elite Gunners: Karath grants Deceptive and Sniper to Troopers.

Multiple Jedi Battlemasters - one of the few OR pieces from the WotC sets that are competitive

Any of the 5 big Vset beatsticks (55+ cost) could be used to build a squad around, but jury is still out about which is the best (or if it's best to use none of them and just use multiple lower cost options).



A few notable mid-level options:
Wookiee Jedi: Massive damage output with little survivability.
Jedi Seer: Crucial versus Lancer. Must have if you expect to see a Lancer.
Covenant Consular/Covenant Hand: Great damage output from the Hand with movement breaker granted from the Consular.

And one more tech to mention:
Old Republic Senator: Like the Bothan Noble for Rebels, but even better.

So there's a quick run-down of what I think the most important new OR pieces.
TheHutts
Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:09:42 PM
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OK - let's keep going in order.

Sith

Like the Old Republic, the Sith were not competitive at 200 points before the v-sets, and they've had to be rebuilt from the ground up. They've received a lot of great new pieces in the v-sets, with cheaper and more sturdy attackers replacing the obsolete 80 point Sith Lords that Wizards of the Coast produced.

A typical Sith squad uses a few of these medium to large attackers, often backed up by one of the force pieces (Darth Sidious Hologram or Exar Kun Dark Force Spirit), and with fringe support (Lobot from the WOTC Universe set is a good idea, as he allows you to customise your Fringe support. The uniques the Sith have received in the v-sets are almost universally very good, so it's hard to pick favourites, but some key ones are:
- Darth Revan, Sith Lord - his self-swap and master tactician allow him to control a game.
- Darth Zannah - a very difficult to kill piece
- Darth Bandon - a good fighter anyway for 27 points, with a great commander effect, giving ellies +10 damage against adjacent enemies
- Atton 'Jaq' Rand - an Old Republic piece with Sith affinity, generally the best option for a shooter for most Sith squads. It's popular to give him Sith rage and force renewal with....
- Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit - can steal force points, his Dark Aura makes the opposing team have to roll 4 higher on saves, he gives out Sith Rage and Force Renewal to an ally.

In squad-building, there are a few different directions you can go with Sith - these are some:

i) A Darth Revan Sith Lord squad - based around Darth Revan, Sith Lord, and his initiative control and his hit and run style (where he can run 12 squares, hit a piece for 60 damage then swap himself out for an Ugnaught, or run 18 squares then swap himself out for another scary attacker like Darth Maul, Sith Infiltrator or Lord Kaan):
Example squad:--'JAQ'ed up!-- by TimmerB246
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
36 Lord Kaan
27 Lobot
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
14 Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit
6 Mouse Droid x2
3 Rodian Brute


ii) A Sith Sorcery squad - based around Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, or Freedon Nadd's ability to mass activate enemy pieces, paired with Exar Kun Dark Force Spirit's Dark Aura, which requires pieces to make a save of 15.
Example squad:
--Sith Sorcery Greatness-- by Billiv15
64 Naga Sadow
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
27 Darth Bandon
27 Lobot
14 Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2



iii) A Darth Zannah squad - based around Darth Zannah's ability to take a lot of damage without dying. In the below squad she's joined by bunch of other hard to kill pieces like Darth Traya and The Huntress.
Example squad:
--Meh-- by Weeks
48 Darth Zannah
38 The Huntress
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
36 Darth Traya
14 Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit
7 Ugnaught Droid Destroyer
6 Mouse Droid x2
15 Ugnaught Demolitionist x5
R5Don4
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 4:46:57 AM
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Rebels


give it up

Remember how Rebels were the go to faction (2007 through 2010) for everyone because they had all those awesome CE that created fantastic Synergy and everyone and there dog at Gencon fielded Rebs? Well, sit down and try not injure yourself or your computer. In the Vsets OR is king see... that's right Old Republic! They get a bunch of cool stuff and shut off your CEs. So yeah, your Rebel squad will have to hang for a few rounds with no CE's. Oh and those will be the rounds that will decide the outcome of the game. You might be thinking, but don't the Rebs get some awesome Vset stuff too? "I heard Pilots were now actually..." Let me stop you right there. I know, I know it's the Rebels and you want to play them with the Vset pieces but don't bother, all they get are the Vset equivalent of Klatoonian Enforcers and the original Ponda Baba. It's like playing Rebels before A&E again, so if you like your Rebels to be terrible, go for it, otherwise explore the wonders of OR, they have talking dinosoaurs (seriously they do).
R5Don4
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 4:47:33 AM
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Imperials


Weir and Pelleaon

In case you didn't read my above post about Rebels, the jist is OR is king. Yes Old Republic. Yes the Faction that only had one Unique for two years. Yes and then they got a bunch of Uniques in KotoR and they still really sucked. Now then, because what makes OR king is what is called a Force Ability, Force Immune characters can ignore it. Their cool Force Ability shuts off CE's and gives +10 Damage to everyone, even Droids. Anyway characters with Ysalmiri can thumb their noses at it and carry on business as usual. Luckily for the Empire Admiral Pelleon has Ysalmiri so you can still use the good Thrawn, or you can use the old Thrawn and do what is called the Double Bubble. Also Pelleaon lets you change up your squad at the last second, so you can use Ozzel when it won't hose you or any of the other Imperial Commanders who you would probably wish you had in your squad depending on the match up.
Now back to the Force Bubble. Who to keep in this protective Force bubble you might ask? The answer would be General Weir.
Remember Storm Commandos? They were called the Swiss Army knife because Rob just filled up their stat card with SAs, and they only cost 17 Points. Remember how with a Czerka Scientist you could get them to do upwards of 120 Damage except they died too fast. Well General Weir gives them boardwide Twin and Sheilds 2, like the Destroyer Droid. He also gives Speeder Bikes Twin Attack but there is only one freak in Chicago who can make that work so just stick with the Commandos. Weir also has Pilot, Twin Attack, Doctrine of Fear, Stealth and Opportunist 20.

One other vset mini of note for the Imperials is GARY. Not exactly like your Uncle Gary, his name is Grand Admiral Rulf Yage but around here he just goes by GARY. GARY gives Pilot and Trooper allies Cunning Attack and costs 16 points. Yeah that misprint on Darth Vader Legacy of the Force's card means he can now get Cunning Attack as well as Opportunist from Thrawn, so the high school co-op student that Wizards of the Coast had doing the SWM proofreading back in 2007 can sleep easy at long last. Don't even think that this means you must be able to combine GARY, Vader LotF, Weir, Speeder Bike and Dash Rendar RS, and Thrawn into a super squad because the points don't work. GARY also has Cunning 20.
Weeks
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:34:04 AM
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Republic.

Republic has the widest range of good stuff in it.

Mace Windu, Legacy of the force. He hits hard, he's hard to hit, if your dice are on he is unstoppable. Stick him with GOWK or General Skywalker and have mace punch dudes in the face.

Foul Moudama. Everything thats good about R2 Astromech Droid rolled into a 23 point package that is a pretty good attacker. Foul hits pretty well with his Rend ability and Lightsaber Defense makes him able to stick around long enough to get all your pieces around the map quickly.

Republic Commando Fi. Fi is a solid backup shooter with some awesome tricks. Traps is an amazingly effective ability. Get Fi within 6 of someone and everyone in your squad is +20% more likely to hit. His Aedvanced Door means your also able to not get locked out as long as he is alive. FOr 25 points you could do much worse.

kezzamachine
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:02:49 AM
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This is gold. R5... you could extrapolate on the Rebel-Imperial options a touch more, I think.... but all good!
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:48:14 AM
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kezzamachine wrote:
This is gold.


So that makes me a Sith Alchemist. Bang!
R5Don4
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:01:30 AM
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kezzamachine wrote:
This is gold. R5... you could extrapolate on the Rebel-Imperial options a touch more, I think.... but all good!


Posts updated.
Hinkbert
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:58:17 AM
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Weeks wrote:
Republic.

Republic has the widest range of good stuff in it.

Mace Windu, Legacy of the force. He hits hard, he's hard to hit, if your dice are on he is unstoppable. Stick him with GOWK or General Skywalker and have mace punch dudes in the face.

Foul Moudama. Everything thats good about R2 Astromech Droid rolled into a 23 point package that is a pretty good attacker. Foul hits pretty well with his Rend ability and Lightsaber Defense makes him able to stick around long enough to get all your pieces around the map quickly.

Republic Commando Fi. Fi is a solid backup shooter with some awesome tricks. Traps is an amazingly effective ability. Get Fi within 6 of someone and everyone in your squad is +20% more likely to hit. His Aedvanced Door means your also able to not get locked out as long as he is alive. FOr 25 points you could do much worse.



In addition to these pieces (and I can't believe Weeks didn't mention these given his Atl squad)

The Naboo Troopers and the Naboo Pilots make great deathshot/run in an fire pieces, especially when paired with:

Captain Panaka of Theed since he Naboo pieces twin attack, plus he has rapport, thus bringing their cost down.

Then you just pair with Queen Amidala, Mon Mothma, Admiral Yularen, a Klatooinian Captain (for the Pilots), and Mas Amedda.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:29:01 PM
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Separatists

The Separatists have only changed subtly since the introduction of the v-sets - living Sep squads still aren't widely played, despite some strong additions like Sora Bulq and Darth Maul, Sith Infiltrator, and previous staples like Whorm Loathsom, General Grievous DAC, Lancer, and IG-86 are still right among the key pieces. IMO, the most notable additions to the faction are:

Poggle The Lesser - makes Geonosian Drones only cost 2 points, and gives them self-destruct.

A-Series Assassin Droid - accurate shot and advantageous attack makes these a valid alternative to the ubiquitous IG-86 in a droid squad.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:41:55 PM
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New Republic

Before the v-sets, virtually every strong New Republic squad utilised Ganner Rhysode and Mara Jade Jedi, using Ganner to lob Mara in to kill something. An example is the classic "Solo Charge" squad, which has finished top 8 at GenCon and won multiple Regionals:

--Solo Charge--
50 Han Solo, Galactic Hero
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
27 Lobot
23 Anakin Solo
12 Gha Nachkt
9 General Dodonna
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
2 Mouse Droid

The v-set has introduced some strong new pieces, which have led to some new squad types. There are a bunch of useful new pieces like the new Jaina Solo, Jaden Korr, and the Galactic Alliance Special Guard, but highlights include:
- Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight: potentially a defensive tank with parry, and access to CEs from Leia, Wedge, and Luke Force Spirit.
- Winter: a strong shooter who synergises with Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight, bringing her into competitive play
- R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes: gives a cheaper disruptive option, with other useful abilities like Blaster Upgrade and Bodyguard
- Corran Horn, Jedi Master: a powerful beatstick with triple, opportunist, and Jedi Reflexes

And here are a couple of squads, both by echo24, that use the new pieces well:

--Promote Synergy (Like a Boss)--
33 Jacen Solo, Jedi Knight
29 Winter
25 Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight
23 General Wedge Antilles
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
10 Jagged Fel
10 Luke Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
6 Mouse Droid x2
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

--Corran Smash--
60 Corran Horn, Jedi Master
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
22 R2-D2 and C-3PO, Galactic Heroes
18 Klatooinian Captain
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
11 Chadra-Fan Pilot
10 Jagged Fel
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
6 Mouse Droid x2
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

It's worth noting that all of these squads have components in common, that you'd expect to see in most strong New Republic squads:
i) General Dodonna's CE
ii) Movement, either from Ganner Rhysode's Levitation or Greater Mobile Attack from the evade/TBSV combination.
iii) A piece with disruptive
iv) Largely built around Uniques
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:27:02 PM
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R5Don4 wrote:
You might be thinking, but don't the Rebs get some awesome Vset stuff too? "I heard Pilots were now actually..." Let me stop you right there. I know, I know it's the Rebels and you want to play them with the Vset pieces but don't bother, all they get are the Vset equivalent of Klatoonian Enforcers and the original Ponda Baba.


Do you not think the Red Squadron Aces are good? Like lots of other CE reliant squads, they're going to struggle against Disruptive/Bastila, but I think they're one of the better swarm squads out there.
kezzamachine
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:15:38 PM
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Mandos, Yuuzhan Vong and Fringe to go!
R5Don4
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:36:02 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
You might be thinking, but don't the Rebs get some awesome Vset stuff too? "I heard Pilots were now actually..." Let me stop you right there. I know, I know it's the Rebels and you want to play them with the Vset pieces but don't bother, all they get are the Vset equivalent of Klatoonian Enforcers and the original Ponda Baba.


Do you not think the Red Squadron Aces are good? Like lots of other CE reliant squads, they're going to struggle against Disruptive/Bastila, but I think they're one of the better swarm squads out there.


Yeah that's the pretty much the Rebel Vset equivalent of Master Tactician, MotF2, Master Speed, LS Assault, Cunning Attack and Self Swap or 6 attacks at +19 for 30 from 12 squares with Parry and Deflect or Quad Death shots for 130 damage etc. If you want to hang your hat on the Ace wet noodle go ahead. If that squad comes out on top it will definitely be the pilot not the Pilots.
kezzamachine
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 8:07:44 PM
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Ah... while it is widely understood that due to Rebel's dominance the Vset Rebel pieces haven't been as powerful as the other factions, don't forget this is about collating information for people who haven't seen anything of the Vsets, not an authorative comparison amongst seasoned players. I'm not sure these new players need to hear recipes for noodles... unless you have any good ones, like a really good egg noodle or Pad Thai or something.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:20:21 AM
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You know, I could just drive twenty minutes and tell them this in person, but:

Mandalorians

Two important pieces the Mandalorians got in Destiny of the Force were hard counters for their previous bad matchups:
Jaster Mereel - gives followers death shots, plus squad flexibility through his 30 points of Mandalorian reinforcements.
Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer - suppresses tempo control (eg Dodonna, Ozzel, San Hill etc)

They've also got a couple of really nice, in-faction door control pieces:
Mandalorian Gunsmith - override, on a good attacker with mobile and cunning
Death Watch Saboteur - satchel charge on a cloaked attacker

Also of note:
Mandalorian Scientist - is a good alternative to the Mandalorian Captain, giving allies within 6 Blaster Upgrade, so that their damage output isn't limited by Bastila's Advanced Battle Meditation and by disruptive.

They've received a bunch of more flavourful, specialised commanders recently, that might have potential: Pre Vizsla (who works nicely with the Death Watch Saboteurs) and Cassus Fett (who has won a Regional this year)

The three squads that have placed in Regionals so far this year are all quite different, so there isn't really a clear pattern of what's best yet, but they do all utilise Cloaked shooters (Mandalorian Scouts or Death Watch Saboteurs) with twin attack (from the Mandalorian Captain, a Czerka Scientist, or a Mandalorian Scientist).
R5Don4
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:42:37 AM
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kezzamachine wrote:
Ah... while it is widely understood that due to Rebel's dominance the Vset Rebel pieces haven't been as powerful as the other factions, don't forget this is about collating information for people who haven't seen anything of the Vsets, not an authorative comparison amongst seasoned players. I'm not sure these new players need to hear recipes for noodles... unless you have any good ones, like a really good egg noodle or Pad Thai or something.


Exactly. If a novice player is interested in playing competitively with the Vset Rebels my advice to quote an old movie, "Move along, move along." The Rebels can do a lot of neat tricks but anything the Rebels can do, another Faction does it better.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:01:51 AM
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Yuuzhan Vong

Before the v-sets, there were only 16 Vong pieces; as a comparison there were the same number of different Luke Skywalkers in the Wizard of the Coast sets. As a result, the Yuuzhan Vong needed a lot of help, and they have done well out of the v-sets, turning from one of the lesser factions to a reasonable option for competitive play, especially if lots of people play Jedi-based squads. Their biggest single gain, and an auto-include for almost every competitive Yuuzhan Vong squad now, is the Yammosk.

The Yammosk does two things:
i) Special abilities that grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares or commander effects normally limited to 6 squares of characters in your squad have unlimited range. This is very helpful, as it means that characters giving out Special Abilities, like the Praetorite Vong Priest, can be kept in safety, rather than having to be within 6 squares of the recipient, while it also means they don't have to use Mouse Droids, which always felt a bit weird given the Vong's canonical hatred of droids.
ii) It steals a commander effect from the enemy squad - so if the other player is running Rieekan, all your Vong get Evade. Nasty....

So the Yammosk is the big game-changer for the Vong, but they've also got a bunch of other cool stuff:
- Yuuzhan Vong Hunter on Quednak - a cloaked, galloping attacker
- Yuuzhan Vong Worker - a cheap piece with Stealth, useful in "Nom Bomb" squads with Nom Anor
- Prefect Da'Gara - gives the Vong an in-faction door control option with Firejelly, and gives squad customization options with Reinforcements 20.

The Vong have got a bunch of useful other non-uniques that have potential too; the Yun-Yammka Fanatic has charging assault and twin, the Chazrach is a bargain at 10 points, and the Yuuzhan Vong Slayer can access evade through the Klatooinian Captain. Also of note are a couple of scary new uniques; Warmaster Nas Choka can take down almost any Jedi in one activation if he starts adjacent to them, while Shedao Shai is tough to kill for 30 points with Crab Armor 6 and Embrace of Pain.

Several squads based around straight-up fighters like Jedi Hunters have done well in Regionals so far this year, but this squad, based around Nom Anor and Yuuzhan Vong Workers, went all the way and won the 2012 Missouri Regional:
--Jake K's 2011 squad-- by TimmerB123
54 Cad Bane
34 Nom Anor
27 Lobot
19 Yomin Carr
15 Yammosk War Coordinator
12 Advance Scout x2
36 Yuuzhan Vong Worker x9
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
(200pts. 17 activations)
R5Don4
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:45:46 AM
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It should be noted that as the Yuuzhan Vong have multiple Force Immune commanders they are generally safe from Advanced Battle Meditation.
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