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bloo customs for vsets? Options
shatterpoint7
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 7:59:16 AM
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Just wondering why we can't use bloo customs for vsets. if people vote on them, doesn't that make them more legitimate for the swm community?
dreadtech
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:19:35 AM
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That would work for things like vassal, but is not practical beyond that.
swinefeld
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:55:35 AM
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Not sure if this is about figures, or stats...?
shatterpoint7
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:20:00 PM
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more the stats, but i also think that the cards would look better if they had a pic of a custom card. could you explain what you meant by not practical? if a piece is broken, people will rate it low. maybe the people making the vsets could revise a few custom stats into the sets?
swinefeld
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:57:05 PM
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shatterpoint7 wrote:
more the stats, but i also think that the cards would look better if they had a pic of a custom card. could you explain what you meant by not practical? if a piece is broken, people will rate it low. maybe the people making the vsets could revise a few custom stats into the sets?


I've heard it stated on more than one occasion that some of the design guys scan the customs areas in addition to the suggestions threads, so to some extent this may already be happening with stats and such.

As to the pics, I agree that would be pretty cool, but I think the "practical" part there is just keeping things simple by using existing minis, even if they are merely "recommended". Makes it easy for people that don't customize.

Using community voted custom minis would require revealing the full set list much earlier and add another layer of coordination to the whole process. Given that multiple sets are in design/production at the same time, it would complicate meeting deadlines a good bit. (IMO)

I'm not against the idea, just some of the issues I see with it.

Sithborg
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 3:52:11 PM
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shatterpoint7 wrote:
more the stats, but i also think that the cards would look better if they had a pic of a custom card. could you explain what you meant by not practical? if a piece is broken, people will rate it low. maybe the people making the vsets could revise a few custom stats into the sets?


There are a lot of roadblocks. First, Bloomilk is not to be trusted in terms of voting. While the security of the site has gotten better, there will be issues of multiple voting, tilting the scales. The ratings on the site may be fun, but are not to be taken seriously in terms of competitiveness or good stats.

And then comes the revision process. None of the customs are playtested. While some may seem okay, they still have to make it through the playtesters. I have seen far too many people ignore valid criticism on their custom stats, especially the overpowered stuff. And customs don't have to deal with some of the issues that have become apparent in V4. You really can't fit everything you want on a non-Epic card. I expect that to be an issue going forward in design (at least with me). And the less I say about what I would have to do to custom SAs, FPs, and CEs the better.

And it comes down to who is doing the tweaks. Trust me, I'm learning a lot about the design process. Creating stats is just the start. Leaving to the customs would leave sets without themes or pieces that could work together. A simple voting process does not work, so then you would need someone to pick a set of pieces to be voted on. You would also need someone to manage the adjustments of the minis, taking into account playtesting. At which point, you are better off letting someone be an actual designer. You cut out a lot of issues that would come up.

And despite what was said on SHH, my customs were not what got me into design. Sure, it helped them show my creativity. But my rules work is what really helped. I may not be a top player, but I sure as hell understand the game on a different level than most.
Biggsy
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 9:53:07 PM
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I believe that the design team gets some inspiration from some of the customs here (maybe even from the old WotC boards?), as i have seen a few that are not far from the custom stats. That's cool.
As for sort of a 'contest' for voting on which customs are going into the set, i hope that never ever happens. I would stop supporting the v-sets if that's how it was going to be done.
As sithborg said, the voting system is quite broken. People would just make clone accounts and vote for their own, and their 'friends' would vote for them no matter how good the stats were.
And i don't want to see some ridiculous fanboy customs in the sets. It's much better with the well designed and playtested ones we get now i think.
SquelchDog
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:17:15 AM
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I think the custom pictures would be a very cool idea! Cool However, the simpler they keep this the better in my opinion. I for one wouldn't want to see anything else hold up or delay what we are already getting from the V-Set team.

While it really would be cool to see one of my own customs in a V-Set, any kind of voting would just get too outta hand. It would just turn into another delay IMO.

I'm not against your idea either dude. I agree with what swinefeld said. Keeping things simple is the way to go. ThumpUp
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:49:52 AM
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Honestly, having a competition for having a custom figure be the figure picture here on bloomilk is a kind of fun idea. It won't work well at all for actual stats or for the figure on the card. The RM is still needed for those of us with little to no custom skill or time.
swinefeld
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:22:21 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Honestly, having a competition for having a custom figure be the figure picture here on bloomilk is a kind of fun idea. It won't work well at all for actual stats or for the figure on the card. The RM is still needed for those of us with little to no custom skill or time.


+1
shatterpoint7
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 11:45:47 AM
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i certaintly dont have the experience to make a decision like this, but in my opinion, a custom fig on a card would look much cooler. it would take longer, but i think it would be worth the wait.
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:05:54 PM
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It would delay a set for months. Not to mention, kill a lot of the anticipation for the set. I miss not knowing what is coming, seeing each new thing as it comes. I wouldn't want to rob others of this excitement. Especially since the recomended mini has a very important part to play for those of us not good at customs.
markedman247
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 4:12:45 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Honestly, having a competition for having a custom figure be the figure picture here on bloomilk is a kind of fun idea. It won't work well at all for actual stats or for the figure on the card. The RM is still needed for those of us with little to no custom skill or time.

I think this idea was attempted but the people running the competition kind of vanished. So the competition would have to be closely monitored and with a firm deadline.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:40:33 AM
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i certaintly dont have the experience to make a decision like this, but in my opinion, a custom fig on a card would look a bit cooler. it would take longer, but i think it would be worth the wait.
gwek
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:11:08 PM
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For the record, we did do for DotF exactly what's being suggested. It wasn't open to community vote, but a committee of volunteers reviewed all the customs that had been created for the first V-Set at the time, voted, discussed, voted again as needed, and selected the "best" customs for each piece in the set.

You can find the results here:

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9929

Why didn't we do it again? Because ultimately nothing came of it. I was hoping that we'd see a complete gallery (or even a fake poster!) with all the selected minis together, or that the images would be used for bloomilk. In the end, though, the thread got only 2 pages word of comments. The process was enjoyable, but in the end, sort of a waste of time.
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