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Scum & Villian + Jedi vs Sith Mini FAQ & Errata Options
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:30:48 AM
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Errata

Grodin Tierce's Clone: Add the following: Unique (Counts as Grodin Tierce)

Karness Muur: Add the following: Melee Attack


Commanders

Master Yoda

Q: Does the attack happen before or after doors?
A: The timing is simultaneous, so the controlling player can decide on the order.

Q: Would bonus that occur on a character's turn still apply, like Momentum or Mighty Swing?
A: It is still part of the character's turn, so yes.

Moff Disra

Q: If Moff Disra gained Line of Sight to an enemy after his Commander Effect was suppressed, would his CE still take effect?
A: No. Moff Distra's Commander Effect must be unsuppressed at the start of a phase in order for it to take effect.


Special Abilities

Bribery

Q: Does Bribery change a character's faction?
A: Yes, if it says that a character is considered to be of a certain faction, like Imperial.

Covert Ops

Q: Does this apply to Twin Attacks?
A: Yes, it follows the same timing as Pheremones.

Muur Talisman

Q: What if there is a tie between who has the most Force Points?
A: The controlling player chooses which of the characters that tied to gain the abilities and Force points.

Trap Door

Q: Can Trap Door affect character's with Emplacement?
A: It can still cause damage to a character with Emplacement, but it can't relocate them.

Versatality

Q: Can I replace the character with a Rebel version if they are in a New Republic squad because of Affinity?
A: No, the character chosen with Versatility must follow the faction building rules.


Force Powers

Talisman Mind Control

Q: What does "does not gain bonuses" mean?
A: That you can't benefit from any Special Ability or Force Power that provides a bonus to the character's stats.

Q: Do penalties still apply?
A: Yes.

AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:41:10 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Versatality

Q: Can I replace the character with a Rebel version if they are in a New Republic squad because of Affinity?
A: No, the character chosen with Versatility must follow the faction building rules.



Maybe I'm not understanding this...but if Han Solo, Rebel General is in a NR Squad with Jaina Solo, I can't use Versatility to bring in a Rebel Han Solo piece even if it still meets the requirement needed for Jaina Solo's Affinity? But I could use Han Solo, Gambler?

(This 100% ruins a squad I was going to make Crying )


jak
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 1:09:14 PM
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ThumbsUp thanx Scott for all your work!+BlooMilk for youBigGrin
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 1:42:33 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Versatality

Q: Can I replace the character with a Rebel version if they are in a New Republic squad because of Affinity?
A: No, the character chosen with Versatility must follow the faction building rules.



Maybe I'm not understanding this...but if Han Solo, Rebel General is in a NR Squad with Jaina Solo, I can't use Versatility to bring in a Rebel Han Solo piece even if it still meets the requirement needed for Jaina Solo's Affinity? But I could use Han Solo, Gambler?

(This 100% ruins a squad I was going to make Crying )




Correct. This follows the ruling for Frozen in Carbonite.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:10:34 PM
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Bastila Shan, Fallen Jedi
Does she have indeed have both Intuition and Surprise Move?
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:11:38 PM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Bastila Shan, Fallen Jedi
Does she have indeed have both Intuition and Surprise Move?



yes
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:13:58 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Versatality

Q: Can I replace the character with a Rebel version if they are in a New Republic squad because of Affinity?
A: No, the character chosen with Versatility must follow the faction building rules.



Maybe I'm not understanding this...but if Han Solo, Rebel General is in a NR Squad with Jaina Solo, I can't use Versatility to bring in a Rebel Han Solo piece even if it still meets the requirement needed for Jaina Solo's Affinity? But I could use Han Solo, Gambler?

(This 100% ruins a squad I was going to make Crying )




Correct. This follows the ruling for Frozen in Carbonite.




Not really following this train of thought.... Frozen in Carbonite is an ability that comes into play during squad construction. Versatility happens after set-up how are they the same? Maybe you could post a link to the frozen in carbonite ruling...?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:25:17 PM
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Q: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction?
A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.

Since Versatality says nothing about faction, a figure must be a NR or Fringe Han or Leia, which admittidaly weakens the two figs in NR, but I see the Frozen in Carbonite ruling being applicable here.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:38:51 PM
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Glossary Text---Affinity

The specified character can be in the specified squad even if it belongs to a different faction. That character's faction is now considered to be the same as that squad's. For example, Mas Amedda would have the Imperial faction if he is in an Imperial squad.

So how does the affinity from jaina, not make the other han's considered new republic? it says nothing about during squad building or anything else, just that han can be in your squad? Or is the affinity just not applicable for other character's special abilities?
juice man
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 3:12:44 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Q: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction?
A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.

Since Versatality says nothing about faction, a figure must be a NR or Fringe Han or Leia, which admittidaly weakens the two figs in NR, but I see the Frozen in Carbonite ruling being applicable here.

I never could see the logic of the "Carbonite ruling", since Jaina's affinty is for any Han Solo.

A character whose name contains Han Solo may be in your squad regardless of factionConfused
It shouldn't matter when he gets there, just that he can be there.

PS
Putting that Jaina in your squad is bad enough.
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 3:32:46 PM
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I don't really follow the logic either...

A bit of a tangent, but by that same logic:

If Marka Ragnos betrayed into your non-Sith squad, and was defeated while in your squad, you would not be able to place his ghost, as that ability is separate from the ability that allowed him to join your squad, and says nothing about breaking faction rules?

If that is correct, it makes sense. With affinity in the mix, not so much for the original question.


How about the Garm reinforcements bringing Ossus into NR interaction? How is that different?

If anything that seems more of a stretch than Versatility, which doesn't specify a faction at all.

[edit] OK, timing is different, during setup rather than after. So the question over affinity revolves around whether it is only "on" before the skirmish begins. There doesn't seem to be anything specific in the FAQ about that situation.

Following that train of thought, can Mon Mothma bring in characters with Republic affinity with her Reserves?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:39:29 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
Q: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction?
A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.

Since Versatality says nothing about faction, a figure must be a NR or Fringe Han or Leia, which admittidaly weakens the two figs in NR, but I see the Frozen in Carbonite ruling being applicable here.


I'm confused - is the BlooMilk squadbuilder broken with regard to Frozen in Carbonite? Because the squadbuilder allows you to take (for example) Han in Carbonite and Han, Rogue into a NR squad if Jaina is in the squad. That seems to fit with the Carbonite Q&A described above. You can't take 'any faction' Han Solo - you have to follow the faction rules, but if Jaina is in the squad, then you can bring in a Rebel Han as the replacement for Carbonite Han. The Q&A above says that you couldn't bring Han GH into a Rebel squad with Han in Carbonite.

If the squadbuilder is correct (which by my reading of the Q&A it is), then the Carbonite logic would say that Versatility should still allow you to choose a Rebel replacement if Jaina is in the NR squad. What you couldn't do is bring Leia Skywalker, JK into a Rebel squad, for example.

The Carbonite example is not a perfect parallel, though, because Carbonite takes place during squadbuilding. Versatility seems to me to be more akin to Reserves, since it happens after setup. But I thought Affinity worked for Reserves, too.
Jedi_Master
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:45:25 PM
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I hope you don't mind if I ask about the epic set interactions.

none shall pass vs levitation. Levitation moves a character and none shall pass prevents a character from moving away. Same question with trap door. As for one with the force, if you put the new anakin solo with him, does ls defense cost nothing?
countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:00:39 PM
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Jedi_Master wrote:
I hope you don't mind if I ask about the epic set interactions.

none shall pass vs levitation. Levitation moves a character and none shall pass prevents a character from moving away. Same question with trap door. As for one with the force, if you put the new anakin solo with him, does ls defense cost nothing?

none shall pass affects only enemy characters. trap door i am not sure about, i would lean towards no because it isn't movement similar to swap.

And yes lightsaber defense can lower the cost of a force power to 0 however it still counts as using a force power, so he can only do them once per turn.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:33:21 PM
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countrydude82487 wrote:
Jedi_Master wrote:
I hope you don't mind if I ask about the epic set interactions.

none shall pass vs levitation. Levitation moves a character and none shall pass prevents a character from moving away. Same question with trap door. As for one with the force, if you put the new anakin solo with him, does ls defense cost nothing?

none shall pass affects only enemy characters. trap door i am not sure about, i would lean towards no because it isn't movement similar to swap.

And yes lightsaber defense can lower the cost of a force power to 0 however it still counts as using a force power, so he can only do them once per turn.


I don't think the rule is 'using a Force Power once per turn', but 'spending force points once per turn'. (Force Renewal 1 is a force power that is used every turn, but doesn't count toward that limit.) I could be wrong on that, though.
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:41:59 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Q: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction?
A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.

Since Versatality says nothing about faction, a figure must be a NR or Fringe Han or Leia, which admittidaly weakens the two figs in NR, but I see the Frozen in Carbonite ruling being applicable here.


I'm confused - is the BlooMilk squadbuilder broken with regard to Frozen in Carbonite? Because the squadbuilder allows you to take (for example) Han in Carbonite and Han, Rogue into a NR squad if Jaina is in the squad. That seems to fit with the Carbonite Q&A described above. You can't take 'any faction' Han Solo - you have to follow the faction rules, but if Jaina is in the squad, then you can bring in a Rebel Han as the replacement for Carbonite Han. The Q&A above says that you couldn't bring Han GH into a Rebel squad with Han in Carbonite.

If the squadbuilder is correct (which by my reading of the Q&A it is), then the Carbonite logic would say that Versatility should still allow you to choose a Rebel replacement if Jaina is in the NR squad. What you couldn't do is bring Leia Skywalker, JK into a Rebel squad, for example.

The Carbonite example is not a perfect parallel, though, because Carbonite takes place during squadbuilding. Versatility seems to me to be more akin to Reserves, since it happens after setup. But I thought Affinity worked for Reserves, too.


Yeah this is how I always thought it worked. You could bring Rebel Hans into the NR with Jaina and via Carbonite you just couldn't bring Han Galactic Hero into the Rebels...
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:32:21 PM
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http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19456214/Fun_with_Kotas_Affinity&post_num=12#331072442

Nickname wrote:
Reinforcements are Reserves follow the squadbuilding rules, and any bonuses or restrictions in place during normal squadbuilding through various special abilities.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19464282/Master_Kota_and_Supreme_Chancellor_Palpatine&post_num=4#331138258

Nickname wrote:
Adding Reinforcements and Reserves are considered a delayed portion of squadbuilding.

There are pros and cons to this. You can take advantage of Rapport, like Kazdan Paratas being able to bring in a droid that would normally cost 31, and cons, like the inability to bring in a Unique even if it was previously defeated or to bring in characters which would be illegal like an Order 66 character with Kota in a Republic squad.


Is Versatility a delayed portion of squadbuilding? (and Pallaeon's CE for that matter)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:39:13 PM
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Here's NickName's ruling on the Carbonite matter, and as usual Sithborg is correct:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19456654/Han_in_Carbonite

However, the apparent reasoning is not what I expected. In that thread, TheCelestialWarrior raised the same point I raised here about Jaina's affinity allowing other Hans in the squad - both Carbonite and the replacement. NickName never answers him, but as far as I can tell the only plausible reason is the one suggested by lordofnitril: Jaina only lets you bring in ONE Han. (Apparently, "A character whose name contains Han" should be read as "One character" instead of "Any character".) Usually a moot point due to Unique, but Carbonite and Versatility make it an important question.


Sithborg wrote:
Q: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction?
A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.

Since Versatality says nothing about faction, a figure must be a NR or Fringe Han or Leia, which admittidaly weakens the two figs in NR, but I see the Frozen in Carbonite ruling being applicable here.


If my logic above is correct, then the unanswered question here is: why can't we use Jaina's Affinity? The answer would be that Jaina's affinity was already used up to bring in Han Solo, Rebel General in the first place.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:12:16 AM
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The main debate is whether a character who brings in another character via Affinity affects all versions of that character? If anyone could somehow find the archives when TFU was released, that would be great. Or I may talk to Nickname to see if he remembers the reasoning.

I've had to do a lot of research to back it up, mainly looking at the Garm examples. Versatility and Frozen in Carbonite do not mention a specific faction nor "regardless of faction". Thus they are more limited. We have the ruling for Frozen in Carbonite. IMO, that ruling applies here.

And yes, Affinity screws up the squadbuilder, and is not always correct. I imagine since the squadbuilder changes a figure's faction when Affinity is used, it would take another layer of programming to prevent all the weird cases that it allows. Just look at how the factions are listed on a figure.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:35:35 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
I've had to do a lot of research to back it up, mainly looking at the Garm examples. Versatility and Frozen in Carbonite do not mention a specific faction nor "regardless of faction". Thus they are more limited.


The main Garm example is about trying to bring Ossus Vong into Rebels via NR Affinity, which doesn't work. That example doesn't apply in the case of Versatility.

Garm can't bring Ossus into a Rebel squad because Garm only brings in Rebel and New Republic pieces, and Ossus Guardians are only considered New Republic when they are brought into a New Republic squad via Affinity. Of course when building a Rebel squad there is no New Republic squad that would change an Ossus' faction in the first place.

With Versatility, in the absence of Affinity, I agree - clearly you couldn't bring in a Han from another faction. The question is whether you could bring Han Solo, Rebel General in an NR squad with Affinity and then replace him with another Rebel Han with that same Affinity. Based on the Frozen in Carbonite ruling, I would say no - Jaina's Affinity only applies to one character.

Quote:
We have the ruling for Frozen in Carbonite. IMO, that ruling applies here.


I agree, but I think the Frozen in Carbonite question is the easy one. It's the ruling on the wording of Jaina's Affinity that is the more important point.
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