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Energy Shield question. Options
Darth Vito
Posted: Friday, August 17, 2012 11:18:37 AM
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I know this has probably been answered before but I would like to know because I am a little confused.
Now Energy Shield says this:

"When this character or an adjacent character is hit by an attack from an enemy that is not adjacent to either, that character takes no damage and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage; the attacker can avoid this effect with a save of 11."

So does the say prevent the damage that the attack takes or does it save for the whole effect? So if the attacker makes the save does the shield bearer take damage?
fett19
Posted: Friday, August 17, 2012 11:36:35 AM
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i would assume if the attacker made the save he wouldn't take any damage and you are still safe from the attack.
swinefeld
Posted: Friday, August 17, 2012 11:38:31 AM
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If the attacker fails the save, no damage to the target and the attacker takes the damage back.

If the save is made, the target takes the damage, assuming no other effects would prevent/redirect it (bodyguard etc).
Drakear
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 1:33:35 AM
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swinefeld wrote:


If the save is made, the target takes the damage, assuming no other effects would prevent/redirect it (bodyguard etc).


If the save is made the target doesn't receive damage.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 2:51:12 AM
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Drakear wrote:
The attacker takes the damage the person with the shield doesn't take any unless the attack is an ability.

If the save is made the target doesn't receive damage.


That is incorrect.

If the attacker makes the save, the character under the effects from Energy/Molecular Shielding would take damage as normal. If the attacker fails the save, it would take damage equal to what would have been inflicted.

Also, Special Abilities and Force Powers are not attacks, some may generate attacks, but they are not considered attacks in and of themselves.
An attack is defined as rolling a d20, adding the results to the character's attack value and comparing the number to the target's defense value. If you're not doing that, it's not an attack.
501 Trooper
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:51:27 AM
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I asked this question before, and there are quite a few answers floating around this thread, but I got answers from people that know the rules quite well. The answer I got was:

When the attacker makes the save, the WHOLE effect is negated. Therefore, when the attacker makes the save, the attack goes as normal, and the energy shield ability is ignored. If the attacker does not make the save, that attacker takes the amount of damage that attack would have done.

That was worded a little poorly, but basically what swinefeld and EmporerDragon wrote.
Drakear
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:10:37 PM
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That makes no sense, think about it If I have a shield and I knock back an attack toward you, You A) avoid the attack (with a roll) or you B) don't avoid the attack (Roll misses) the attack has already been knocked back at you. As the attacker you aren't baseballing your shot back at me after I have knocked it back at you.
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:24:52 PM
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Energy Shield: When this character or an adjacent character is hit by an attack from an enemy that isn’t adjacent to
either character, the attacker makes a save of 11. If the save fails, the targeted character takes no damage and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage.

The bolded portion is one effect. Either the damage is reflected, or the damage goes through to the original target. Think of it as Evade that also reflects damage.

urbanjedi
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:26:33 PM
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Think of it more like this. You have your shield. If I make the save, my shot was so accurate (or forceful) that you couldn't block it and you take the damage. If I miss the save, I was so focused on hitting you that you easily blocked it and it came straight back at me and hit me.

There are only 2 possible outcomes. Someone has to take the damage. If the attacker makes the save then the guy with the shield takes damage. If the attacker fails the save, then the attacker takes the damage.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:55:40 PM
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Remember, the game is an abstract; It is not a 1:1 representation of what would actually happen. That's what the RPG is for.
Bubba Fett
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:44:56 AM
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Let me just clear this up for once. Here is the direct quote of what the Bloomilk glossary says:

When this character or an adjacent character is hit by an attack from an enemy that is not adjacent to either, that character takes no damage and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage; the attacker can avoid this effect with a save of 11.

I am going to go about this in a word by word manner, but first let me give you my credentials. I am one of the rules experts and interpreters in my local group. I have played with squads that use this squad considerably, mostly with the squad at the following link: http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/121477/yodas-blues.

The way I read the rule is that when an attack takes place, therefore a 20 sided die is rolled, first the character with energy shield or an adjacent character do not take damage. That is the first and foremost clarification. The defendant in the attack cannot take the damage. It then states "and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage." The damage was "prevented." There is no way around it being prevented. It cannot happen. The attack has been thwarted. After that is a semicolon ";" ending the current verbage and moving on to a separate but linked idea (basic grammar rules). Following the semicolon it say "the attacker can avoid this effect with a save of 11" and that is all it says. Nothing on the negated affects of the shield. The effect the save is avoiding is the damage "prevented" by the shield being reflected back at it. Another reason I come to this conclusion is its similarity to Lightsaber Reflect (http://www.bloomilk.com/ForcePower?Id=1). It is worded nearly the same so shouldn't the effect be similar.
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:01:40 AM
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And you would be incorrect.
Bubba Fett
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:03:59 AM
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Thank you for responding so bluntlySleep
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:09:12 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Energy Shield: When this character or an adjacent character is hit by an attack from an enemy that isn’t adjacent to
either character, the attacker makes a save of 11. If the save fails, the targeted character takes no damage and the attacker takes damage equal to the prevented damage.


Again, this is the glossary defination. It should even be in your rulebook.

Bloomilk is not an official resource you should use, as it has errors. Considering your arguement involves the grammar of the incorrect resource, maybe you need to do more research.

All the official resources, as they were from WOTC and created by WOTC's official rules rep are available on www.swmresources.com after their former home of The-Holocron went down.

Bubba Fett
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:31:28 AM
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Thank you for your response using www.swmresources.com as your source. I was just going to ask if any one had another credible source. I understand your position. Every rule in the book could be argued over for hours, entirely based on interpretation. No rules system is entirely idiot-proof. No offense was meant. I sometimes get a little over-passionate about my rules interpretations. Although this doesn't solve the initial problem, I think we can agree to disagree. I do see you are a rules guy here on Bloomilk, Sithborg, so you probably have a little more say than I do, and I can respect you for that.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:12:54 PM
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Bubba Fett wrote:
Thank you for your response using www.swmresources.com as your source. I was just going to ask if any one had another credible source. I understand your position. Every rule in the book could be argued over for hours, entirely based on interpretation. No rules system is entirely idiot-proof. No offense was meant. I sometimes get a little over-passionate about my rules interpretations. Although this doesn't solve the initial problem, I think we can agree to disagree. I do see you are a rules guy here on Bloomilk, Sithborg, so you probably have a little more say than I do, and I can respect you for that.


FYI, he's the rules guy for the game overall, not just on Bloomilk - he pretty much bats at 100.
Bubba Fett
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:46:16 PM
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I understand, thanks. I've been in the game a while but I am not familiar with the behind-the-scenes personnel. I only just found this site about a year ago at most. I am very much a by the rules-and-nothing-but-the-rules sort of player. Sometimes I might read between the lines a little too much, but I do feel my interpretations are of enough value to be in the least bit respected, as are most of us I would assume. As to the initial question posed by Darth Vito, I would then have to suggest the opinions of Sithborg, although I have not played by his presented method ever.

How ironic!!! My forum ranking just went up to a Gungan Shieldbearer! Who plans that out.
Drakear
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 1:36:52 PM
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So we have decided (we as in the community I play with) to continue to play the correct way, and will play just the was Bubba Fett has stated thanks for your answers.
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:00:59 PM
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Drakear wrote:
So we have decided (we as in the community I play with) to continue to play the correct way, and will play just the was Bubba Fett has stated thanks for your answers.


Except that is not the correct way. However you play is up to you, just so you are aware if you play with other groups.



http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19463850/About_energy_shield?post_id=331135134#331135134

Pay attention to the post in blue. Nickname was official from WOTC.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Sunday, January 6, 2013 7:39:24 PM
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And if you want to dig even further, look up the questions about Molecular Shielding, which is exactly the same as energy shield save for the fact that Energy Shield also affects adjacent characters.

Since the ability's introduction in mid 2005, the answer as to how the ability works has never changed.
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