|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
So these 2 pieces are now legal for 200 point play correct, because I played against the sidious yesterday in a game and was absolutely destroyed... after doing only 50 damage to the sidious. After the game we discussed the pieces and what we came up with is...... these pieces are ridiculously overpowered and will be bad for the game... So what I am looking for is anyone that played with/against these in Gencon to give me feed back on these pieces. We came up with a 15 act Imperial squad that has full board swap, act control. In this squad there was an amanin scout that could run 20, (wheel form +force point from sidious) swap in sidious, who could then do 150 to a force user if he doesn't move, 50 auto with lightning, and could move 8 then assault for 80-100 damage depending on being force user or not. Then you auto win initiative (barring a muun broker, or han solo who is also within 6 of sidious) and can swap out, or continue with the attacking, lightning, for some amazing damage capabilities.... Now onto the Luke, he is also crazy good, and what I came up for with him is using him with felucians and the falucian shaman, then bodyguard luke while he kills everything.... Needing input on these pieces for a really important decision that is about to be made.... thank you.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
|
Oh man, it's like Black and Blue or something......
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 414
|
Well, in the strictest sense of terms, these are not legal until they are released as part of a set, so until January. However, I have really reduced the restrictions to sanctioned formats, so technically they can be legal based on TO discretion.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
Weeks wrote:Oh man, it's like Black and Blue or something...... Hmm, ask for seriousness, get this.. thanks weeks.... Not it is not like black in blue it is black and blue on steroids, parry... evade... MoTF2 Renewal 3 so much more then black and blue
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
They are 100 pt pieces. They sort of have to be powerful.
The squads I played against where designed to make them as annoying as possible to defeat. My squad was also fairly taylored to defeating the pieces. I ran a swap squad with Revan (negated Sidious's CE), Maul, Kaan, and Jarael. Didn't actually win, but again, the squads were designed to be annoying.
As for their strengths. Sidous has the same weaknesses that Jarael. Mara Jade, Jedi will nearly kill him. Luke faces similar issues that Grandmaster does. Being shot is both of their weaknesses. And it is amazing how much a Djem So piece can also whittle them down.
For you situation with the Felucians, bring in a Jawa Scavenger to snipe the chieftan, and boom, no problem. Or use some Disruptive or ABM.
And Black and Blue using a piece that is 25-29 more points than higher point version there was.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/12/2010
Posts: 564
|
@Sithborg, yes Mara Jade, Jedi will nearly kill the Sidious but when is the last time she got ran? She isn't really a viable option in competitive play anymore. I know at all of the regionals I went to this past season, Owensboro, Atlanta, Kokomo she wasn't ran at all, and if by chance I missed her at the regionals, she had zero impact. So yeah you can make a hate squad, that is made to beat this, but how will it do against everything else at a tournament, probably won't do very well.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
Sithborg wrote:They are 100 pt pieces. They sort of have to be powerful.
The squads I played against where designed to make them as annoying as possible to defeat. My squad was also fairly taylored to defeating the pieces. I ran a swap squad with Revan (negated Sidious's CE), Maul, Kaan, and Jarael. Didn't actually win, but again, the squads were designed to be annoying.
As for their strengths. Sidous has the same weaknesses that Jarael. Mara Jade, Jedi will nearly kill him. Luke faces similar issues that Grandmaster does. Being shot is both of their weaknesses. And it is amazing how much a Djem So piece can also whittle them down.
For you situation with the Felucians, bring in a Jawa Scavenger to snipe the chieftan, and boom, no problem. Or use some Disruptive or ABM.
And Black and Blue using a piece that is 25-29 more points than higher point version there was. What disruptive piece can stand against that luke? I know they have to be powerful but at what expense... you yourself said you ran a squad tailored to beat the piece AND YOU LOST.... how is that good for the game... a tailor made squad that can't beat the squad it was made to beat does not sound to good to me... as far as shooting at luke goes, go ahead i have the felucians to bodyguard me, even if you kill the felucians one at a time how long will your shooter last against a man that can move 12 and attack from 6 for 120 damage..? My point is if you have to tailor make squads to beat these pieces is that not what you all as designers said you wanted to stay away from... if general obi-wan kenobi dominates the meta and cuases a shift to people making tailor made squads to beat them we will do something... is this not the same idea? Of course I do not know if they will dominate yet, we have not really seen them, that is the point of this thread I played against them, and I am genuinely concerned about them, and am expressing my beliefs, with the hope that you guys can prove me wrong, and give me insights into how to make a squad that beats this and mace windu/bastila in the same tournament.....
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
I think that if your squad isn't prepared for it then you could have problems, but no more than if you ran up against GMLS and weren't prepared for it. Tim's Stealth and Blue should be able to beat either of these with ease. And that is without the tactics broker. With the Tactics broker you traded your 100pt emperor for absolutely nothing. You get outactivated, Cad Bane Swaps in does 120 on the first part then 80 more after init. It's all really matchups to an extent.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/12/2010
Posts: 564
|
@urbanjedi, my playgroup has discussed this and I agree, Cad takes this squad. Naboo troopers take this squad, I also feel like Lancers can take it. Our concerns are how viable are Lancers and Naboo going to be now that set 4 is legal? Mando the Vindicated who will no doubt be ran a lot, will destroy the Naboo. I'm interested to see how Lancers do against him. My guess is not very well.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
First, you have to understand the point of the Bounty Hunters Challenge. It was not to beat the opponent's squad. It was to beat the figure. Thus what was played, is NOT what you will see in tournies. I played against stuff that was pure anti-hate. And despite what people may think, I'm not the best player. I made some critical errors against the Luke squad. I had some bad luck against Sidious. To apply my results in the BHC is not fair. If my losses were a factor, then the Teddy Bear Ewok Victory should be a factor as well.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
That 15 activation squad will lose to Naboo and Stealth and Blue pretty much every time, and will have a lot of trouble with Lord Vader squads, can definitely lose to Old Republic squads, and can be beat by Lancers or an HK-47/IG-86 squad. And these are just the things I've thought of since Bronson texted me about it a few hours ago.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
theultrastar wrote:@urbanjedi, my playgroup has discussed this and I agree, Cad takes this squad. Naboo troopers take this squad, I also feel like Lancers can take it. Our concerns are how viable are Lancers and Naboo going to be now that set 4 is legal? Mando the Vindicated who will no doubt be ran a lot, will destroy the Naboo. I'm interested to see how Lancers do against him. My guess is not very well. Ahh, yes. Mando the Vindicated. There you go. A whole bunch of their weaknesses addressed there.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
Lancer should be able to beat Mando the Vindicated but I don't think Lancers can beat much else right now. Lose to Naboo, lose to Mace, stuggle against OR, struggle against NR, lose to Bombs. Problem with Lancer right now is map choice. With Muun gone, the lancer doesn't have a map advantage. If the lancer can't get to your key commanders or can only get 1 or 2 guys a strafe, then it is pretty pointless.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
Echo24 wrote:That 15 activation squad will lose to Naboo and Stealth and Blue pretty much every time, and will have a lot of trouble with Lord Vader squads, can definitely lose to Old Republic squads, and can be beat by Lancers or an HK-47/IG-86 squad. And these are just the things I've thought of since Bronson texted me about it a few hours ago. Ok will give you cad and naboo troopers, but once again how much will they be played in the meta after set 4? The only one that I am aware of that runs Cads with any success anymore is Tim B. Old republic would lose to this if you dont pop bastila first round you start loosing shooters right away first round.... As far as HK/droids go it very well may lose to this squad. So.... 3..3 squads 2 of which I am not convinced will be that good after set 4.... As for Mando the Vindicated I think he has a fair shot at beating Sidious, but with his evade and MoTF and renewal, with init control, i would think He would just get lightninged to death not to mention outacted to set all that up....
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/12/2010
Posts: 564
|
Yeah me and Daniel texted throughout the day about the Sidious. I don't believe that they can't be beat. Obviously they can. My concern is the stuff that can beat it, how viable is it to run that in tournament play now that set 4 is legal. I used Sidious last night in a match, I wasn't using Thrawn. I used Sidious, Vader Agent of Evil, 4 Stormtroopers, Ozzel, had 10 acts with act control. I even said at the start of the game this in no way is the best squad for this Sidious. It was something I threw together to face DeathsBaine with so he would have some experience against it. He ran 2 very good shooters, a really good melee piece, had 2 really great bg's and great movement. And Sidious mopped up. I played wreckless even. And at no point was I worried I was going to lose this match. In the time limit he was able to do 50 dmg to Sidious, thats it.
When that happens, it raises some eyebrows. I run Lord Vader, in some ways I consider the Lord Vader squad better, but then I look at this guy he has Parry and Evade. You can shoot Vader, you can hit him with Melee. This Sidious it's really hard to do significant dmg to him. I agree that he costs 100 and he should be difficult. No argument here. He is a very interesting piece. I'm very interested to see how the community as a whole feels about him and Luke.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
Sithborg wrote:First, you have to understand the point of the Bounty Hunters Challenge. It was not to beat the opponent's squad. It was to beat the figure. Thus what was played, is NOT what you will see in tournies. I played against stuff that was pure anti-hate. And despite what people may think, I'm not the best player. I made some critical errors against the Luke squad. I had some bad luck against Sidious. To apply my results in the BHC is not fair. If my losses were a factor, then the Teddy Bear Ewok Victory should be a factor as well.
I get the point of the challenge and thought it was a cool event, but the pieces seem to me to be designed for the challenge and epics moreso then 200 point competitive play where from all instances of gameplay I have seen they dominated every time....
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
|
My earlier question was not answered if you have to run a squad designed to beat these squads how is that not a shift in the meta that everyone wanted to avoid? So far IMO we have 2 viable options to use against these squads, mando the vindicated and H/k Droids oh how fun a meta that would be....
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
I guess I just don't see how these two pieces shift the meta any more than the popularity of Mace. Much like Darth Bane in 100 in the old days, activation control will be their downfall.
Sidious wil have problems because he is down to three big attacks. Luke is init dependant.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
Deaths_Baine wrote:My earlier question was not answered if you have to run a squad designed to beat these squads how is that not a shift in the meta that everyone wanted to avoid? So far IMO we have 2 viable options to use against these squads, mando the vindicated and H/k Droids oh how fun a meta that would be.... Yeah, Stealth and Blue was definitely built specifically to beat these pieces. Naboo and Lancers too. Oh, and Lord Vader Black and Blue.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
I don't really seem them changing the meta all that much. Luke is similar to GMLS and will pretty much get shot up by anything with a gun. Sid is a little tougher, but don't see how he changes it much either. He might do well at a tourney or even win a regional, but I don't think he is better than any of the other pieces/squads we have out there. We have such a wide open meta right now that I think almost any squad could win.
|
|
|
Guest |