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Neural mapping Options
sharron
Posted: Monday, March 4, 2013 8:09:02 PM
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If the new mezhan kwaad uses her neural mapping, then gets defeated before her next activation, is the effect continuous? Or does it turn off ? I see a loophole, and hopefully I can exploit it ;)
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, March 4, 2013 8:27:20 PM
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(unofficial answer) It will die with Kwaad as it does not state 'until the end of the skirmish'.
Dr Daman
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 1:05:32 AM
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I'd also like to know how this would work.

The card text says that the affected character retains Neural Mapping till Kwaad's next activation. If Kwaad dies, then she never gets another act so it would look like NM would stay. I'm sure there's something we're missing but i can't see what...... Confused
UrbanShmi
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:37:59 AM
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Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation, one adjacent non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is subject to Yuuzhan Vong special abilities.

Please see the bolded part. For Neural Mapping to be in play, the affected character has to be adjacent to Mezhan Kwaad. One she's defeated, she's removed from the board, and no one can be adjacent anymore.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:01:17 AM
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UrbanShmi wrote:

Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation, one adjacent non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is subject to Yuuzhan Vong special abilities.

Please see the bolded part. For Neural Mapping to be in play, the affected character has to be adjacent to Mezhan Kwaad. One she's defeated, she's removed from the board, and no one can be adjacent anymore.


I do not think this is correct.

You have to be adjacent to give it, but you don't have to stay adjacent. (Wow she would really suck if you had to. Practically unusable)

As far as if it stays when she dies,

I believe Swinefeld nailed it. It will go away
UrbanShmi
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:19:27 AM
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Then why would it include a range restriction before the ability text? I could be wrong, but it seems redundant to me to specify touch and adjacent ally, unless the ally has to stay adjacent.

ETA: For comparison, look at Rangefinder, Adjacent allies that do not move get +4 attack againt nonadjacent enemies.

Even though this ability specifically states that the allies can't move, which Neural Mapping does not, it remains on point. The Twilek Scout can't use it on an adjacent ally and then move away; the characters have to stay adjacent for the ally to get the bonus.
theConsortium
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:05:11 AM
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UrbanShmi wrote:
Then why would it include a range restriction before the ability text? I could be wrong, but it seems redundant to me to specify touch and adjacent ally, unless the ally has to stay adjacent.

ETA: For comparison, look at Rangefinder, Adjacent allies that do not move get +4 attack againt nonadjacent enemies.

Even though this ability specifically states that the allies can't move, which Neural Mapping does not, it remains on point. The Twilek Scout can't use it on an adjacent ally and then move away; the characters have to stay adjacent for the ally to get the bonus.


Well, I think that the original wording of Neural Mapping is the issue. It's simply too vague. If you consider the Power Coupling ability (or Rangefind as you just mentioned), the definition specifies that the character who recieved the bonus cannot move (or at least must remain adjacent).

Power Coupling: At the end of its turn, this character can choose 1 adjacent Small or Medium ally who does not have Melee Attack. That ally gains Extra Attack until the end of this character's next turn, or until this character is no longer adjacent.

Neutral Mapping makes no such distinction, and it appears there is no reason why the character receiving the bonus could not move. It doesn't consider the possiblity that the character with Neutral Mapping might not have another turn to activate, whereas other effects do. For another example, consider the Stormtrooper Commander's CE:

At the end of this character's turn, choose 1 adjacent non-Unique follower. That follower gets +10 Damage until the end of this character's next turn, or until this character is defeated.

You would have to ask the set designers; Neutral Mapping is worded rather vaguely. There is a serious loophole in the text wording (or in this case, a lack thereof). Sounds like we might need some errata. Wink
fingersandteeth
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:59:50 AM
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Hmm this looks like an error in wording that slipped.

Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation or this character is defeated, one non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is subject to Yuuzhan Vong special abilities.

this is the intent
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:22:39 PM
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When I get my cards, I will double check to see if it needs errata.
theConsortium
Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:35:50 PM
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Well, as long as the original definition contains "until ths character is defeated", it'll be fine. Thanks for wanting to sort this out.
TheHutts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:35:17 PM
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A slightly different question on Neural Mapping - how does the Yammosk interact with the piece that gets Neural Mapping. If I have a Cad Bane that's taken 20 damage, and whose been given Neural Mapping by Kwaad, and I also have a Praetorite Vong Priest in the squad, does Cad Bane have to be within 6 of the Priest to get the Scarification bonus?
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 4:25:17 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
A slightly different question on Neural Mapping - how does the Yammosk interact with the piece that gets Neural Mapping. If I have a Cad Bane that's taken 20 damage, and whose been given Neural Mapping by Kwaad, and I also have a Praetorite Vong Priest in the squad, does Cad Bane have to be within 6 of the Priest to get the Scarification bonus?


This will have to be a Scott ruling, but I believe you would not have to be within 6 of the priest.


Neural Mapping (Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation, one adjacent non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is subject to Yuuzhan Vong special abilities)

Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator (Special abilities that grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares or commander effects normally limited to 6 squares of characters in your squad (including this character) have unlimited range. You may not have more than one character with Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator in your squad.)

I italicized and underlined the parts that I think pertains.

The yammosk makes Yuuzhan Vong special abilities within 6 have unlimited range regardless of who is effected. Of course, it doesn't matter what the range is if it can't effect you. Neural mapping allows a character to be effected. Range already doesn't matter.
swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 4:49:11 PM
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I don't think the neural mapped character will benefit from the Yammosk. It is not Vong, regardless of it being subject to Vong abilities. The key part is "grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong".

For example, Vong can use the Yammosk to extend range 6 Fringe CEs that affect them, while Fringe allies still count range for those normally. I think this is pretty much the same situation.

Of course, the glossary could specifically define it that way (perhaps that IS the intent). I'm curious as to how it will end up.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 5:42:35 PM
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swinefeld wrote:
I don't think the neural mapped character will benefit from the Yammosk. It is not Vong, regardless of it being subject to Vong abilities. The key part is "grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong".

For example, Vong can use the Yammosk to extend range 6 Fringe CEs that affect them, while Fringe allies still count range for those normally. I think this is pretty much the same situation.

Of course, the glossary could specifically define it that way (perhaps that IS the intent). I'm curious as to how it will end up.


It doesn't have to be vong.

Is it (priest) a special ability given to vong that is range 6? Yes
Therefore it is unlimited range.

Cad bane would always be in range in this squad. (assuming no locked doors)

Neural mapping would make him eligible for the SA that he is already always in range of

swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 7:21:59 PM
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While I see what you are getting at...

Quote:
Yammosk War Coordinator
Q: If I have a Fringe commander in the squad that affects Fringe characters and Yuuzhan Vong characters in my squad, does the commander effect have unlimited range, or range 6?
A: It has unlimited range for the Yuuzhan Vong characters, and range 6 for the Fringe characters.


So...yeah, this will need a Scott ruling. YWC affects SAs and CEs the same way.
swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 7:57:30 PM
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Tracked down the glossary for War Coordinator (added it to the SA listing here)

Quote:
Characters' (including this character) special abilities that grant bonuses to Yuuzhan Vong within 6 squares have unlimited range. Characters' (including this character) commander effects normally limited to 6 squares have unlimited range for affected Yuuzhan Vong. You may not have more than one character with Yuuzhan Vong War Coordinator in your squad.


Reading it again, Tim's interpretation seems to be supported by the wording.

Given what I think the intent of the ability is, it makes sense.
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:05:29 PM
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hmm, this is 100% a Scott question. I know what that the intent was for it to work that way, but because of previous rulings on the way coordinator, specifically the fact that fringe SAs that can affect characters in the Vong faction (czerka giving Nom Jolt assuming a shaper from across the board) are extended seems to mean that abilities that affect vong characters is the key and not abilites that affect vong characters meaning that in order to be affected by the range extension you must be of the Vong faction. It applys to the beneficiary and not the sender so to speak. Since I don't think that Neural Mapping makes you Vong, I would think that you would still be hampered by the range of the ability even though now you can benefit from them. I hope that I am just over-thinking this and it will end up working how I believe it was intended too, but that is up to Scott.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 5:07:48 AM
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Based on the wording, I'd say the affected character has access to the SA but not the benefits of being Vong by faction. In other words, the character may get the bonuses but since his faction does not change to the Vong faction, he must stay within 6 of the shaper, priest, or Nei Rin (Provided you give the Fringer VCA).

Or a simpler method:
You are only getting the free play subscription instead of the paid subscription. So, yes, you can play, but you don't have access to all the event or gear that a subscriber has.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 7:28:16 AM
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Glossary should clear this up. It should be worded something like this.

Neural Mapping - Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation, one non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is subject to Yuuzhan Vong special abilities. The chosen character is considered Yuuzhan Vong for the purposes of special abilities. This applies to the chosen character until this characters next activation or until this character is defeated.

I guess the ideal wording for the ability should have been

Neural Mapping - Replaces attacks: touch; until this character’s next activation or it is defeated, one non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally is considered Yuuzhan Vong for the purposes of special abilities.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, March 18, 2013 12:29:58 PM
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SA's are still extended as normal.

Still not considered to be a Yuuzhan Vong character for CEs.
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