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Questions Concerning Malgus Options
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:55:00 AM
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So I ran into a question with this new Malgus, and have been arguing with people so I thought I would just go to the experts.


Force Pull, Push, Repulse, SBM, Happen on the character using the Force Abilties turn, not the recipiant of the ability. So no AOO on those.

POTDS, happens on that characters turn, but allows another character to take a turn. AOO allowed

FYD forces people to come to him on THEIR turn... Not on Malgu's turn. AOO?

There is no wording on the FP that says if AOO happen or not, just that they have savage and must come to Malgus if they can. Given our current situation with FP and AOO, I would assume since the movement does not occur when the FP is activated, that AOO are able to take place from this.

If this is not the case, please give me a good definition so I can understand the new category that this FP falls under.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:07:35 PM
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It has nothing to do with what turn it happens on. Pull, Push, Repulse, and SBM all specify that the movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. Face Your Destiny has no such clause, so characters are subject to AoOs. Characters are always subject to AoOs unless specified otherwise.
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:17:01 PM
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That is what I thought as well. I thought there had to be something stating that it didn't provoke them. Thankk You Daniel, always a pleasure to get a response from that goes my wayThumbsUp
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:36:31 PM
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ok well this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life... so everyone get ready for cadeus to flow walk adjacent to you attack you battle manipulate everything adjacent to you then make you move adjacent to malgus while attacking you with everything he just moved adjacent to you with... how stupid.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:47:29 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
ok well this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life... so everyone get ready for cadeus to flow walk adjacent to you attack you battle manipulate everything adjacent to you then make you move adjacent to malgus while attacking you with everything he just moved adjacent to you with... how stupid.


That combo costs 126 points to use. There's too few points leftover to make it a regularly viable technique.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:53:08 PM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
ok well this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life... so everyone get ready for cadeus to flow walk adjacent to you attack you battle manipulate everything adjacent to you then make you move adjacent to malgus while attacking you with everything he just moved adjacent to you with... how stupid.


That combo costs 126 points to use. There's too few points leftover to make it a regularly viable technique.



not really add in both force spirits and you gained like 6 more force points to spend as you see fit they both have renewal 2 so they do not hurt for force points to begin with. And it is not even just this combo, just make a straight line in a hallway with your stuff make them face their destiny and then attack them with every piece you have as they come to malgus

come on no targeting rules nothing, just hey make this save of 16,which can easily be a save 20, ok awesome failed come here and lose all commander effects.... so stupid.
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:00:09 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
EmporerDragon wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
ok well this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life... so everyone get ready for cadeus to flow walk adjacent to you attack you battle manipulate everything adjacent to you then make you move adjacent to malgus while attacking you with everything he just moved adjacent to you with... how stupid.


That combo costs 126 points to use. There's too few points leftover to make it a regularly viable technique.



not really add in both force spirits and you gained like 6 more force points to spend as you see fit they both have renewal 2 so they do not hurt for force points to begin with. And it is not even just this combo, just make a straight line in a hallway with your stuff make them face their destiny and then attack them with every piece you have as they come to malgus


The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:01:59 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:09:24 PM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.



and I saw it with 8 acts beat grahams regional winning sep lancer squad ran by shmi15 on vassal.
And it does not have to be this set up. this force power does not even replace anything so it can be used on multiple targets as well.... so once the fighting begins you can move around then pull them back to malgus and watch the AOOs build up yay.... how stupid
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:23:10 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
EmporerDragon wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.



and I saw it with 8 acts beat grahams regional winning sep lancer squad ran by shmi15 on vassal.
And it does not have to be this set up. this force power does not even replace anything so it can be used on multiple targets as well.... so once the fighting begins you can move around then pull them back to malgus and watch the AOOs build up yay.... how stupid


Disregard I misremembered Face your Destiny.

What was the squad shmi15 ran? I still really don't see this as being that powerful. Good and interesting, but not back-breaking
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:48:25 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
EmporerDragon wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.



and I saw it with 8 acts beat grahams regional winning sep lancer squad ran by shmi15 on vassal.
And it does not have to be this set up. this force power does not even replace anything so it can be used on multiple targets as well.... so once the fighting begins you can move around then pull them back to malgus and watch the AOOs build up yay.... how stupid


Disregard I misremembered Face your Destiny.

What was the squad shmi15 ran? I still really don't see this as being that powerful. Good and interesting, but not back-breaking



malgus cadeus vergere to give crab armor and healing and force spirit when she dies then the new trader guy to give out satchel charge and the force spirits.
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:51:00 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
EmporerDragon wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.



and I saw it with 8 acts beat grahams regional winning sep lancer squad ran by shmi15 on vassal.
And it does not have to be this set up. this force power does not even replace anything so it can be used on multiple targets as well.... so once the fighting begins you can move around then pull them back to malgus and watch the AOOs build up yay.... how stupid


Disregard I misremembered Face your Destiny.

What was the squad shmi15 ran? I still really don't see this as being that powerful. Good and interesting, but not back-breaking



malgus cadeus vergere to give crab armor and healing and force spirit when she dies then the new trader guy to give out satchel charge and the force spirits.


I only see 6 acts....I'm curious, how did he play the squad? Do you have details?

EDIT: IE his first targets, map, positioning etc.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:13:06 PM
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AndyHatton wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
EmporerDragon wrote:
AndyHatton wrote:

The setup you have now described costs 157 points, leaving you 43 points of other attackers...I do not see this working very well


And that's not even factoring in necessary tech like door control.



and I saw it with 8 acts beat grahams regional winning sep lancer squad ran by shmi15 on vassal.
And it does not have to be this set up. this force power does not even replace anything so it can be used on multiple targets as well.... so once the fighting begins you can move around then pull them back to malgus and watch the AOOs build up yay.... how stupid


Disregard I misremembered Face your Destiny.

What was the squad shmi15 ran? I still really don't see this as being that powerful. Good and interesting, but not back-breaking



malgus cadeus vergere to give crab armor and healing and force spirit when she dies then the new trader guy to give out satchel charge and the force spirits.


I only see 6 acts....I'm curious, how did he play the squad? Do you have details?

EDIT: IE his first targets, map, positioning etc.




don't have time to type up a huge thing but basically he gave crab armor to malgus, moved up behind malgus let the ig-86s shoot at him when they hit he normally cut the damage to 10 a shot with crab armor and dark armor, then healed with vergere as he advanced. once the fighting started he could manipulate the bombs into a line and then attacked them. used the force spirits to give them additional force points, I know at one point malgus was up to 10 force points and never ran out.
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:19:27 PM
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The following is a rough cut sum of what I use and thought on it.

Malgus
Caedus
Vergere
Ragnos FS
Squib Trader
R7
2 x Sith Recruit


You give VC 6 to Malgus so he can negate 20 damage pretty easily from shooters, and he has illusion for melee. FYD is so Brutal that Malgus can Be SBM twice by Caedus, to move 6. then run 12. and slap it on anyone within 12.... Twice. Or 2 Targets. Thats 2 Big attackers that won't do anything till next round in MOST squads. Caedus is just crazy good and kills GOWK/ MAce squads single handedly. and has MI 2 with MOTF 2 and Renewal 2. So. My gameplan.style

Against Melee. Slap FYD on your best people and drag them through Caedus and Vegere to get AOO on them as they come face Malgus ( who can drop 120 on his next turn, with VC6 to negate 10 dam, or Illussion)

Against Shooters. Leave Caedus in the back and charge Malgus and Vergere. Illussion everything I can while FYD pieces to come and fight me.

Think it runs out of FP to fast? Nope. By the time the fighting starts, b/c its a slow starting squad (round 3 I try), Malgus will have 12, 6 plus the FS. Caedus will have 8 ( maybe more if you leave him a round behind) and if shooters ignore Vergere, run her at the best 30 below piece and use Malgus CE to sac her, still defeats her, and you get their guy closer to Malgus.

Door control problems. If I look at a squad and see it will run into issues with door control. I use the first 2 rounds to give satchel charge to 2 people, Malgus and Caedus, sure it wastes their turn to do it, but if im playing someone who is trying to play a lock out game, they prob don't have tons of heavy hitters to begin with.

You can change this post to whatever you feel it neccessary for now, as I feel the rules portion may be unjustified, but I thought I would place it hear so you guys could see it


Edit ( MAP CHPOICE Bothan Spynet)
fingersandteeth
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:50:47 PM
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yeah, brutal combo.

Need to play very carefully against it.

You can always bring in Maliki with lobot and turn the tables on Malagus a bit. When he turns you savage, Maliki gives the FYD recipient overwhelming force which cuts through all the defense boosts.

Its worth remembering that if you activate before Malagus, and out activate his team then you can make FYD go away without it doing anything.

Obviously, a new style vong squad will decimate this squad.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:07:16 PM
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fingersandteeth wrote:
yeah, brutal combo.

Need to play very carefully against it.

You can always bring in Maliki with lobot and turn the tables on Malagus a bit. When he turns you savage, Maliki gives the FYD recipient overwhelming force which cuts through all the defense boosts.

Its worth remembering that if you activate before Malagus, and out activate his team then you can make FYD go away without it doing anything.

Obviously, a new style vong squad will decimate this squad.


Ysalamiri takes it behind the woodshed as well. Idk if we should be calling something too strong this early. This squad has 2 entire factions that it will struggle against as well as the usual suspects that could be issues for it. Naboo even poorly played can give this squad fits. Any squad with Lobot with take an extra r7 vs you and open door/blam blam blam/ close door. If you're using Malgus on door duty then that's an extra turn of attacks before your big move.
Eroschilles
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:14:29 PM
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May not be tier 1, but still pretty scary.
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:24:50 PM
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Vong it does struggle very much against, but depending on the Vong squad, it will do better than most think. The FP for Caedus become awesome, b/c you havng him with the FS to give him 4 extra fp. He has Makashi Masstery, so as long as he rolls good no vong will damage him much. Malgus can still do 90 next to 1. And Vergere becomes interesting b/c you can run her with them and heal, and if someone wastes a turn to kill her 4 more FP to Caedus to make sure he can Flow Walk whenever he needs to. Not as lop sided as you guys may think.

And for the immunity bubble. I have played a Cad/Arica squad with this and still won ( not 3 points, but still won) and would love to play the Storm Commandoes anytime, b/c I feel I could kill Palleon or Weir with the Malgus CE . Again, unless someone wastes a turn to kill Vergere and allow one of them to get 4 more FP. They still could only do 10 damage a shot to Malgus, and may never hit Caedus near the end.

Naboo Troopers I laugh at. I would leave Caedus in the back and charge them with Malgus and Vergere, and laugh at their attempts to take him down. Illussion, VC 6, DA, a FS and the ability to throw FYD on them, I would promise on average 6 Troopers dies without havng CE do to Malgus.

fingersandteeth
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:49:33 PM
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this is probably the optimum build

72 Darth Malgus, The False Emperor
54 Darth Caedus, Sith Lord
30 Vergere
27 Lobot
17 Marka Ragnos, Dark Force Spirit

200

it will probably wreck shop until people figure out its flaws.
shmi15
Posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:05:10 PM
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I dunno if Lobot would be neccessary. I understand the logice. Get the R7 only if u need it. But other then that stuff he is 27 points of Gambit lumped into 1 useless piece. I think the pros and cons would way in the 2 Sith recruits over him. the R7 isn't neccessary, if u want 1 more activation take out the R7 and bring in 1 more recruit, and an uggie or something. Lobot is just a frail Cyborg for what this squad is designed for
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