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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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When a character w/ Self-Destruct also gets to take a Deathshot (think Klatooinian Assassin w/ Mon Mothma) when defeated, who is the acting player?
They both take place in step 13 of the resolving effects and I believe the acting player decides which one happens first.
I saw a couple different things in the Glossary that seemed at odds with one another.
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It doesn't really matter which one you resolve first. It doesn't change anything. Because it all happens at the same time, none of the characters are removed until later. For instance if you SD and it would kill the guy adjacent, you still have to shoot that guy with the death shot.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Thanks Jason. That's the specific scenario I wanted to figure out.
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That doesn't seem correct. The dying character (e.g. the Klatooinian Assassin) isn't removed until step 14, but in step 13, a whole new round of an attack is begun for the Death Shot or for Self-Destruct.
Call the original attack's steps O1, O2, O3, etc. So the Klat is removed during step O14.
During step O13, a new series of steps is triggered based on Self Destruct. Call the steps for that attack SD1, SD2, SD3, etc. When SD14 is reached, the target killed by the Klat on self-destruct is removed. Then the death shot could proceed with steps DS1, DS2, ... Finally, it returns to step O14 where the Klatooinian Assassin is removed.
Note that this is different from trading Djem-So's because in that case, NONE of the attacks reach step 14 until the Djem So chain ends. With trading Djem So's, nobody is removed until the Djem So chain ends.
Also note that I've been wrong before, so wait for a more official answer.
As far as the original question... who is the acting player in that situation? I'm not sure, but I think it would be the one who did the killing.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Here's what step 13 says: Quote: 13. Resolve any remaining "when defeated" effects such as Impulsive Shot, Impulsive Sweep, Self-Destruct, Cleave, Rolling Cleave, Mon Mothma's commander effect, and so on. Use the simultaneous effects rule as usual. As in previous steps, Impulsive Shot and Impulsive Sweep can begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.
In this case I guess I don't see why the sequence would be interrupted. I would think both would be revolved at the same time before moving on to step 14.
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begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.
Did you leave out the word 'not'? Your first sentence doesn't seem to agree with your second sentence. As I read it, the first sequence would be interrupted by a sequence for Self-Destruct followed by a sequence for Death Shots (or vice versa). After both are resolved, the original sequence would proceed to step 14.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Hopefully Scott will come along and explain it better, but I believe it is because all figures are removed at the same time. It has worked the same way since WOTC introduced Mon Mothma. There are all kinds of crazy interactions and the one I remember best was Solo Charge against a Senate Commando squad where the guy "really" killed Anakin because Anakin Unleashed and hit 3 senate commandos and they all had to shoot him.
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urbanjedi wrote:Hopefully Scott will come along and explain it better, but I believe it is because all figures are removed at the same time. It has worked the same way since WOTC introduced Mon Mothma. There are all kinds of crazy interactions and the one I remember best was Solo Charge against a Senate Commando squad where the guy "really" killed Anakin because Anakin Unleashed and hit 3 senate commandos and they all had to shoot him.
I don't see that interpretation just from looking at the steps in resolving an attack, but that does sound familiar.
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FlyingArrow wrote:begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.
Did you leave out the word 'not'? Your first sentence doesn't seem to agree with your second sentence. As I read it, the first sequence would be interrupted by a sequence for Self-Destruct followed by a sequence for Death Shots (or vice versa). After both are resolved, the original sequence would proceed to step 14. Sorry, it made sense in my head at the time. Guess I needed to go a bit further with my post. I think, and I could be wrong, that you can't move on to step 14 without fully resolving step 13. So if I have that part correct that would be the explanation of why Jason said the order didn't matter. The bomb can go boom first but nobody gets removed from the battle grid until the Deathsot gets resolved. So even if the bomb would have defeated an adjacent attacker that character remains in place and is the only legal target for the character making the deathshot (assuming it is the only adjacent enemy). Then once the deathshot and bomb have been resolved you can proceed to step 14 where defeated characters are removed from play. Hopefully this post is more coherent. lol
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GF,
That makes more sense. I just thought there would be a separate Step 14 for the new attack sequence. Maybe the new attack sequence's step 14 gets postponed and is resolved with the original attack sequence's step 14. Or maybe you can't remove a character while the character still has a pending attack sequence to resolve - in the case of Anakin, he still has to apply the damage to all the other affected characters even after taking enough damage to kill him. Or maybe something else. At this point I'm just speculating.
=== Edit: Apparently, the above is incorrect. If a death shot kills anakin, his force power is canceled and he doesn't get to apply the rest of the damage.
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As to the original question, it would be the owner of the defeated character choosing which to resolve first.
As to the ongoing question. You resolve each defeated character seperately. It's why a character using Force Repulse can stop the repulse if their "when defeated" etc stuff kills the Repulser. I believe urbanjedi is confusing the deathshot triggered by a deathshot problem, which is not the situation described. If all characters were removed simultaneously, Self Destruct would end once it defeated a character, which is NOT the case.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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OK so in the example above where an adjacent attacker defeats an enemy that has both self-destruct and is benefiting from Mon Mothma's CE, that enemy becomes the acting player and then could choose to use Self-Destruct first and if that kills the attacker he could then use his deathshot against another legal target?
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To make things more complicated... suppose a Wookiee Jedi with 20hp remaining and both Cleave and Rolling Cleave (from Ahsoka) kills a Klat Assassin with death shots. At step 13, there are 4 simultaneous effects to resolve:
Cleave, Rolling Cleave, Self Destruct, Death Shot
How exactly is the order determined?
Suppose the Wookiee Jedi player wants this order: Death Shot (to prevent the Klat from attacking someone else, and hoping the Klat misses) Rolling Cleave (to move and make both the Rolling Cleave and Cleave attacks against a character a square away) Cleave Self Destruct (so that the Wookiee has moved away before the self destruct happens)
Suppose the Klat Assassin player wants this order: Self Destruct (to guarantee a kill against the Wookiee and prevent the Cleave attacks) Death Shot (against another character) Cleave (cancelled) Rolling Cleave (cancelled)
I'm not even sure my underlying assumptions in this situation are correct.
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Galactic Funk wrote:OK so in the example above where an adjacent attacker defeats an enemy that has both self-destruct and is benefiting from Mon Mothma's CE, that enemy becomes the acting player and then could choose to use Self-Destruct first and if that kills the attacker he could then use his deathshot against another legal target? So.....Self-Destruct first, remove adjacent attacker, then Deathshot on a different target farther away?
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If you want. You could do it the other way around if you want.
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That goes completely reverse of the rulings from last year where as if you have a poggle bomb based to a naboo then bomb kills the naboo and the naboo has to shoot the poggle bomb.
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spryguy1981 wrote:That goes completely reverse of the rulings from last year where as if you have a poggle bomb based to a naboo then bomb kills the naboo and the naboo has to shoot the poggle bomb. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. If the Poggle bomb kills the Naboo, then a separate sequence is initiated before stage 14 of the Self-Destruct chain. Thus, the bomb hasn't been removed yet, and the Naboo Death Shot chain begins. Right?
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Correct. Those are two different situations.
When a Poggle bomb kills a Naboo, the Naboo's death shot happens before the Poggle bomb is removed from the board, so the Poggle bomb is the target. In this case, the death shot is nested within the sequence of the Self-Destruct.
The situation in this thread is a Klat that has both Self-Destruct and a death shot and they were killed in some other means (call it the 'original attack'). So here both effects are on the same character, and they happen in sequence. Both are nested within the original attack, but they happen one after the other. They can happen in either order, but the first is completely resolved before the second starts. After both finish, then the original attack is finished up by removing the Klat from the board.
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FlyingArrow wrote:...but the first is completely resolved before the second starts. Thank you for clearing that up as to the reason why!
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That's funny Troy. I posted the thread originally to figure out how my squad from this weekend would handle Klat Deathshots and you wanted to know for your squad. I'mglad I spent enough time thinking about them beforehand or you may have beaten me.
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