I wanted to make sure I understood this ability before the TN Regional this Saturday. Supressive Fire ignores abilities like Crab Armor, Dark Armor, Shields, Beskar Gam and the such correcty?

I heard that the original ruling was that it did not, as those abilities responded to the dmg and not her attacks, but then in Kokomo I heard that the ruling had been reversed.

So I just wanted to make sure I understood the ability.

Thank you Sithborg

I don't believe I ever reversed my position. The precedence with Force Immunity is there. You can't use Force Bubble against a character with Force Immunity, so why could you use it against Suppressive Fire.

Force Immunity: Other characters cannot spend Force points to affect this character, to reroll attacks against it, or to respond to its attacks and abilities. This character does not count for purposes of Force powers that affect multiple characters, such as Force Lightning or Shockwave--select a different character instead.

Suppressive Fire: On this character's turn, enemy characters attacked by this character cannot use special abilities or Force powers that respond to this character's attacks for the rest of the turn and enemies hit by this character's attacks cannot benefit from or grant commander effects for the rest of the round


In both cases, you cannot use abilities to respond to attacks. You cannot use Force Bubble when attacked by a character with Force Immunity. Thus, reducing damage is part of responding to the attack. Pretty much, anything before the actual defeat is responding to the attack. So, the damage reducing abilities can't be used the same way, since Suppressive Fire prevents abilities that respond to the attack.

Yes.

No. Because the damage is part of the attack, and you are affecting the attack, not the character.

Where in the resolving effects list do you want me to place the cutoff then? When attacked? When hit? When targeted? Let's forget the way it will screw up the already difficult interactions Force Immunity has. Honestly, the resolving when defeated should be part of the attack, but we have precedent that it is not, in that you can reroll Avoid Defeat and use Eternal Hatred when defeated by a character with Force Immunity. We already have issues with having to time movement the exact timing, I'm not forcing such exactness to attacks as well. This game is already complex already, don't ask for more complex timing.

Yet a "golden gun" ability is created that skirts virtually any defensive ability or force power leading to add to further complexity. Couple that with command effect nullification, it becomes a very unpalatable special ability. Once again, I am not dismissing the ruling. I know it was playtested. I know the consensus of those commitees was that it was satisfactory interaction.

The saving graces are, for this ability:
1) that they are on moderate cost pieces.
2) both pieces are at low attacks
3) One is a Fringe piece available to all factions
4) One is available to two factions giving two low-tier factions a chance at double Suppression.

But, I fear the Disintegration precedent. On a restrictive piece, it wasn't a bother. But, when added to a Boba or a Cad, it might be too powerful leading another "correction" in the game where counter measures must be created.

But this has meandered into mere opinion.

Here is the section of the resolving effects list in the rules forum that swinfeld set up (which was awesome for him to do btw! ):

---

10. Resolve effects that trigger when this character is hit. Some effects trigger (or can voluntarily be triggered) when the target is hit by an attack, such as Evade, Flurry, Lightsaber Block, Lightsaber Deflect, Lightsaber Reflect, and Lightsaber Riposte. (Force Points may be used to reroll saves on this step, if the character is still able to use Force Points during this turn.) If multiple effects trigger, use the simultaneous effects rule to determine the order in which they are resolved. You may see the results of one effect before resolving another, but no single effect may be resolved more than once. For example, a character can never Lightsaber Deflect the same attack twice. (Effects such as Flurry and Lightsaber Riposte begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.)

11. Resolve "when this character takes damage" effects. Some effects/abilities trigger (or can be voluntarily triggered) when the target takes damage, such as Shields and Bodyguard. Perform this step only if damage will be applied, using the simultaneous effects rule as necessary. If Bodyguard is being used, it must be resolved prior to other effects like Shields, Damage Reduction, and Dark Armor.

---

I'd say its pretty clear that Suppressive Fire would take effect at 10. However, at step 11 it shifts to a different phase which is "when this character takes damage". When this character is hit by an attack is much different than when a character takes damage, since Jolt works in this way. You don't need to deal damage for Jolt to work. You just need to hit the target. A hit target still has to make the save regardless of actually taking damage. So in the list of when Suppressive fire ends, I'd conclude that it ends at step 10.

Also, notice that at the begining of each step, it says "resolve". This is just like the step 13 where it says "resolve any remaining "when defeated" effects". See below for the whole step 13:

13. Resolve any remaining "when defeated" effects such as Impulsive Shot, Impulsive Sweep, Self-Destruct, Cleave, Rolling Cleave, Mon Mothma's commander effect, and so on. Use the simultaneous effects rule as usual. As in previous steps, Impulsive Shot and Impulsive Sweep can begin new attack sequences that interrupt this sequence; resolve the new attack completely, then continue where you left off with the original attack.

To me, this shows that "when hit" and "when this character takes damage" and "when this character is defeated" are 3 things that are separate and need to be resolved in order. Saying that "when hit" and "when this character takes damage" are the same thing for when Suppressive Fire is used, means that you should also include "when defeated", which doesn't happen. I think its clear that these should be kept seperate and that Suppressive fire should end at "when hit". I understand that Force Immunity makes things difficult. I don't mean any disrespect towards the guys who work on rules and how SA's are worded. You guys work really hard on the sets and its much appreciated. I think this makes for an interesting discussion that will only improve our game moving forward.