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I know the GenCon 2013 has been only over for a few days, but I think this is the best time to reflect and talk about what people liked or didn't like (please keep it constructive) about GenCon this year.
What would you like to see in the future? Better yet what sort of event would make you play SWM at Gencon? Because sadly there were people in the community that were there that didn't play. I totally understand that time is at a premium at GenCon and you just can not do everything.
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I wasn't there this year, but I'll comment as a person who might be able to come in 2014.
For me, it's all about competitive constructed play. I recognize that not everyone is like me in this, but this is what drew me to Gencon back in 2008 and has kept me eager to come each year since then. To me, the magic of Gencon is all about non-stop high-competition SWM for 4 days straight. I can play "for fun" games on Vassal forever (and even with my kids), but it's never the same as playing in a competitive tournament. Therefore, for me, this is where it's at:
-Championship (Friday is a great day for it)
-Jedi Challenge (please, never 100pts again!!!!!)
-Sith Trials (see below)
Also, I REALLY missed the 500pt Epic tournament last year (on Sunday morning when the Champs Playoffs were) and I would've been sad to miss it this year too (it wasn't even in the line-up). I know that 500pts is hard to fit in. My suggestion, if you want to fit the 500 in there, is to adjust the Sith Trials to be this:
-Mystery Map (always great)
-Tile Wars (always great)
-500pt Epic Skirmish (drop the LS/DS event)
One of the biggest criticisms against 500 is the amount of time it requires, but I think that doesn't need to be a problem. Here are my suggestions for the 500pt format at Gencon:
-Keep games to 1 hour. There is no need to give people 90 minutes if....
-Gambit is 25pts, only score-able by a piece 25pts or higher.
-Full wins are awarded for those who've scored 350pts+ and more than their opponent.
Honestly, the Sealed event wasn't all that great last year (I've never liked sealed events), but the minis were *awesome.* So I'll still continue to play in the Sealed event, but just so I can get the minis. I'd prefer it if there was some way to get the minis without having to play in a 4-hour event; maybe next year I'll sign up for Sealed, and then drop and hit the dealer hall after the first round if I don't have a good squad.
Also, as much as I enjoyed the Royal Rumble event, I think I preferred the 3-man Team Tournament for the 3 years beforehand. I think that's mostly because there's more teamwork involved in the original Team event (deciding which matchups each player will face).
BHC, of course, is an excellent event; it even draws in Teddy-Graham-wielding children! :)
I recognize that not everyone is like me (a competitive play junkie), and that's fine. But this is what will draw me to Gencon in 2014.
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FYI Sealed was the most attended tournament of the entire 4 days.
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leshippy wrote:FYI Sealed was the most attended tournament of the entire 4 days. Yep, I'm aware of that. It was also the most popular in 2013, if I remember correctly; maybe the Championship had more players, I'm not sure anymore. I'm not saying it's a bad event, nor am I saying it should be dropped. What I am saying is that all those oodles of people didn't necessarily play in the event because they were excited about Sealed...but rather, they were excited about the cool custom minis they got. All sealed events (both in WotC days and now) have always been a crapshoot: did you pull the "big" pieces, or did you get mostly junk (as I did last year)? I've got better things to do with my 3 hours, if I get bad pulls. That's all.
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This was my first year of Gencon, what I enjoyed about the experience was the city of Indy, the massive convention center, with all the vendors and hotel exploring. And of course getting to see everyone again, and play a game I love.
The things I did not enjoy was the prices. Most of us are already spending a great deal getting to Gencon, why cost tournaments 14 dollars? Especially for a game that has no corporate backing. The cheapest SWM event at Gencon was BHC for 6 dollars. I was there for two days, played the Jedi Challenge, and World Champs, would have stayed and played longer but the cost was too much.
Another big beef I had with Gencon was the prize support. I can't speak for the other tournaments but I know in the Jedi Challenge, I spend 42 dollars to play all three legs, finished top 4 once, and got a pack of GAW. At the end of the whole thing finished 5th and so at the end of the entire thing for my 42 dollars I got a few promo cards and a pack of Galaxy at War. Just about any regional you attend has better prize support. Unless this issue is addressed by next year, I won't be attending again. It's just not worth it.
The other issue I had was the lack of breaks, during the Jedi Challenge on Thurs. it was minis from 9am till almost 11pm something like that, and the only way you got a food/bathroom break was if you stomped your opponent in under 30 minutes, found a way to guard your stuff. Made your way through the huge crowds found a bathroom/food vendor, got your stuff, and then braved the crowds again. That's freaking rough I don't care who you are.
So yeah my issues all summed up, Pricing, Prize Support, Breaks.
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I didn't go, but I didn't even know that there were prices for the tournaments. So another issue: advertising. I saw the threads here and on gamers, but I didn't see a nice webpage with the schedule that I could bookmark or a price list.
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My opinion on Star Wars Miniatures is that it should be as cheap and fun as possible. If you are running events that only have prizes for top 4, the cost for the event needs to be around 5 dollars per leg. I can justify a higher cost of entry when there is a ton of prizes. As the event currently stands I would put Kokomo's regional over Gencon. They always have cool prizes, they make the tournaments fun with mini events like "Head Hunter" Award, "Most Crits" Award, things like that. And that's not something you want people leaving Gencon thinking. You want them to leave thinking "this is the most fun I have ever had at a Star Wars Minis Event, THIS is why it's the World Championship"
I left Gencon glad that I attended, just for the experience of it all, but thinking "I've been to Regionals where I got more bang for my buck."
There is no reason an event like Tile Wars should run 14 dollars to enter. Tile Wars is cool, that's not a shot at the format, but games take all of 10 minutes to play, and you are charging 14 dollars to enter? I just can't justify paying for events like that. Once again I look at Kokomo where a couple years ago they ran a Tile Wars event on a Friday Night, it was 5 dollars to enter I believe. That's a good price, regardless of the prize support that goes with it.
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What does it cost to rent tables at GenCon? That might be part of the issue.
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@FlyingArrow, that no doubt goes into the reasoning behind the price of the events, but like I said if you have to charge 14 dollars an event, then make sure it's worth it for the gamers. Promo Cards, and a booster pack is cool prize support for like a bi/weekly/monthly gathering at your game store or something, but not for Gencon.
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@ThereIsNoTry, honestly the least fun during the Jedi Challenge was the 150pt format. 100 took me by surprise it was a lot of fun. Some of my favorite matches took place during 100pts.
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Ok, cool. I was not expecting everyone to agree with me; I was just sharing my perspective. I remember I had a lot of fun last year at 150 with Mace/GOWK/R2 and some scrubs.
I think prize support has become more difficult over the years. Going to Gencon when a new set is being/has been released (ie, in 2008) was a lot of fun. I remember that nobody had the new set (KotOR) yet, and so each booster was a big deal. But it's hard to make prize support really shine when most people already have most or all of the minis in the game.
As for pricing, I know that it IS expensive to rent space and tables, etc. Gencon itself will also take its cut from whatever proceeds the SWM events might bring in. I'm curious to know if the SWM organizers this year made a profit or not; I certainly wouldn't want them to be in the red...especially after giving up a week of holidays, and then paying for travel, hotel, and admission to the Convention, just to sit behind a computer and run an event.
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thereisnotry wrote:
As for pricing, I know that it IS expensive to rent space and tables, etc. Gencon itself will also take its cut from whatever proceeds the SWM events might bring in. I'm curious to know if the SWM organizers this year made a profit or not; I certainly wouldn't want them to be in the red...especially after giving up a week of holidays, and then paying for travel, hotel, and admission to the Convention, just to sit behind a computer and run an event.
I also would not want them to be in the red. And perhaps there is no happy medium here. This is just my thoughts with my first Gencon experience. If pricing, and prize support gets fixed, I'll be back next year, if not, I'll just continue to attend regionals, and focus on Minis Mania.
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$2 per hour of your tickets go to Gencon. So, no prize support at all, the championships would probably still be $12 or $14. Keep in mind, if major companies might run events at a loss. Which is not an option for us.
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Sithborg wrote:$2 per hour of your tickets go to Gencon. So, no prize support at all, the championships would probably still be $12 or $14. Keep in mind, if major companies might run events at a loss. Which is not an option for us. That's helpful; thanks, Scott. So a 4-round tournament is going to cost $8 minimum, outside of prizes or other factors. That really helps to put things in perspective.
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One event perhaps to consider would be the modified NZ Battle Royale/King of the Ring that I've been running at most of our local WNY events. It's been well received (IMO) and might add the same dimension that the RR does but without the team effect.
Also I'd like to see the Epic 500 make its reappearance next year as we've got six new pieces waiting to get more action and I believe the last Epic 500 was at FrostyCon.
Please keep the V-set sealed as it's wizard!
Just my .02.
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Actually it is $2 per 2 hours that Gencon charges (so $4 for most 4 round events). That also doesn't take into account the charge to set up a "head table" or the cost to have power available for the weekend or any of the other incidentals that pop up. Also, last year we got some great discounts from some of the vendors at the show, who were unwilling to participate this year. Hopefully that changes for next year. Once we get our official numbers back from Gencon, we will certainly start planning in earnest.
Prize support this year was very similar to last year's con which afterward everyone said was great. With some of the negative reactions from this year's support (and lack of attendance) to some of the tournies, we have already started to look to ways to keep everything in the black as well as make sure things are fun.
In all likelihood, we will see slightly cheaper events (that will only be 3 rounds long) that will have hopefully similar prize support as this year had.
However, GenCon does take a good chunk of money from the tourney making it very difficult since we don't have anyone backing us.
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@theultrastar Comparing what you get from GenCon to what you get at the Kokomo regional really isn't a fare comparison. Bryan who owns the shop, plays and wants to keep the game alive. He barely makes any money on the regional and most of the prizes are donated by local players. As a local player we don't mind because we know it draws a crowd and helps keep the game alive.
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I think the airfares to GenCon are far too expensive. Can you fix that? Yeah, thanks.
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kezzamachine wrote:I think the airfares to GenCon are far too expensive. Can you fix that? Yeah, thanks. DONE
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leshippy wrote:kezzamachine wrote:I think the airfares to GenCon are far too expensive. Can you fix that? Yeah, thanks. DONE Wow, you're amazing! Can you move Gencon to mid-late July? That would be great. 
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