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Will Dalaa effect the Meta? Options
Weeks
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:51:52 AM
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Since pretty much ever the Imperials have been a faction completely reliant on Thrawn. With Admiral Dalaa out now what is everyone's opinion on how she will work? Will Storm/Snow/Sand Troopers actually be a viable squad?

I think they will be personally. A rock squad that's built around gambit control is going to have a tough time dealing with a swarm of low cost/high attack/force immune(pelleaon) shooters charging fire on them.

AndyHatton
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:21:15 AM
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I've been having issues playing against Dalaa's Snowtroopers. Now granted, I tend to play squads with big Jedi and few activations and they have been getting eaten up, even an OR squad with AMB had some issues thanks to the inclusion of Disra and a lack of accurate shooters.
urbanjedi
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:27:51 AM
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I think that yes, there are a couple of really, really good builds out there with old fashion Troopers.
harryg
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:35:18 PM
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Yes I honestly think we will see a competitive Trooper squad with daala.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:36:47 PM
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I've been running a snowtroopers squad and asking AndyHatton to run hate squads at it, and so far it's had success. But... he hasn't brought a lancer yet.

This is the squad:
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/132398/charging-snowtroopers
(Note that since the rapport isn't right there are two changes not reflected there... remove Veers for a Covert Ops Clone Trooper and remove one Bothan to add one more Zygerrian.)

The problem with this squad is the problem with any other swarm squad. Without Self-Destruct or death shots, how do you handle a lancer/YoBuck/etc? That's why there's the Covert Ops Clone Trooper... I don't see any other way to survive a Lancer. (And I'm not so sure that the Covert Ops Clone Trooper would provide enough protection.)

And how do you handle ABM since EVERYTHING is from CEs? That's why I have Disra - such a waste in many circumstances, but he basically single-handedly beat Bastila. If there were an accurate shooter there, I would have needed a bodyguard for him with Bribery. Since they're shooters, Disruptive/Distraction doesn't matter so much except for TINT's pesky Mandalorians. Disruptive+Cloaked could cause quite a problem.
AndyHatton
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:42:21 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I've been running a snowtroopers squad and asking AndyHatton to run hate squads at it, and so far it's had success. But... he hasn't brought a lancer yet.

This is the squad:
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/132398/charging-snowtroopers
(Note that since the rapport isn't right there are two changes not reflected there... remove Veers for a Covert Ops Clone Trooper and remove one Bothan to add one more Zygerrian.)

The problem with this squad is the problem with any other swarm squad. Without Self-Destruct or death shots, how do you handle a lancer/YoBuck/etc? That's why there's the Covert Ops Clone Trooper... I don't see any other way to survive a Lancer. (And I'm not so sure that the Covert Ops Clone Trooper would provide enough protection.)

And how do you handle ABM since EVERYTHING is from CEs? That's why I have Disra - such a waste in many circumstances, but he basically single-handedly beat Bastila. If there were an accurate shooter there, I would have needed a bodyguard for him with Bribery. Since they're shooters, Disruptive/Distraction doesn't matter so much except for TINT's pesky Mandalorians. Disruptive+Cloaked could cause quite a problem.


Have I run any strafe against it or was that just the Vong Squad that I ran that against?

Darth O
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:50:03 PM
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I think we'll see some good snowtrooper squads do very well in the next season. I could even see a bespin guard build achieve much the same thing in the republic.
SignerJ
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:59:39 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:

And how do you handle ABM since EVERYTHING is from CEs? That's why I have Disra - such a waste in many circumstances, but he basically single-handedly beat Bastila. If there were an accurate shooter there, I would have needed a bodyguard for him with Bribery. Since they're shooters, Disruptive/Distraction doesn't matter so much except for TINT's pesky Mandalorians. Disruptive+Cloaked could cause quite a problem.


What about an OR squad with Mira as the main shooter? Is that feasible? And if so, what would that do to your Charging Snowtroopers squad?
Deathwielded
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:19:37 PM
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I think Daala Trooper squads are quite strong! Here is my first squad using Daala
Imperial Socialism were I used the troopers to get that first couple of strikes and set up a strong position while I set my commanders up for their strong attacks.
I haven't faced a Strafe squad yet, but Disra helps keep the CE's going strong.
Maybe I should try out those Snowtroopers... And the Covert Ops Clone Trooper and maybe those Slavers...
Galactic Funk
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:25:26 PM
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SignerJ wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:

And how do you handle ABM since EVERYTHING is from CEs? That's why I have Disra - such a waste in many circumstances, but he basically single-handedly beat Bastila. If there were an accurate shooter there, I would have needed a bodyguard for him with Bribery. Since they're shooters, Disruptive/Distraction doesn't matter so much except for TINT's pesky Mandalorians. Disruptive+Cloaked could cause quite a problem.


What about an OR squad with Mira as the main shooter? Is that feasible? And if so, what would that do to your Charging Snowtroopers squad?


Since Disra has to have line of sight to someone in your squad to stop their CE's from being suppressed and only has 30 hp IIRC, he is extremely vulnerable. I guess the trick is whether or not you can use Mira effectively in an OR squad.

Stealth and Blue should give these squads trouble. Echani's too.

And is Disra a auto include to make the Snowtrooper Charge stand up throughout a full tournament?
Deathwielded
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 2:55:05 PM
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Galactic Funk wrote:


Since Disra has to have line of sight to someone in your squad to stop their CE's from being suppressed and only has 30 hp IIRC, he is extremely vulnerable.
And is Disra a auto include to make the Snowtrooper Charge stand up throughout a full tournament?

Not sure though he certainly helps this kind of build and certainly won't hurt their chances at a tourny IMO.

How about this version that is like a mix of FlyingArrow's and my squads TRWEHIDWBT
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:37:02 PM
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Mira could be a serious problem. Or, really, even an accurate Jawa would be a problem. Disra is super-weak. Since ABM is the issue, not really Disruptive, Pellaeon might be a better choice, but then you're trying to fit a whole squad - including the commanders - in a very small bubble. Remember there's no double-bubble because you can't have GAThrawn. But against OR, the troopers would way out-activate the OR, so that could help a lot.

Stealth and Blue with Arica could be a problem depending on the map and how well the troopers are hidden. Since they have charging fire and are shooters, they can be spread out pretty well and hidden enough that she can't get too big of a barrage if the map allows for it. I'm a lot less worried about Cad. He could take out any single piece, but the squad can survive the loss of any single commander except Daala and still function. Daala just has to be well hidden.

I don't think Echanis would cause trouble. I think troopers would even have the advantage, but I guess it would depend on the map. (I'm assuming equally skilled players here.) Echanis can take out troopers easily enough, but the troopers can take them out, too. I'd trade 2 (even 3) troopers for an Echani in a heartbeat. With the Zygerrians, a trooper can run 24 (ignoring difficult terrain while within 6 of a commander). On the right map, that would be enough to base an Echani to negate evade. Even without the Squad abilities or the Czerka nearby, they hit at +12 for 30dmg. Not an auto-hit, but 65% chance of hitting an Echani (even after Atris).

I would not say Disra is an auto-include. You could try Pellaeon to negate ABM instead, especially since Disruptive isn't so big of an issue. Or you could try to just wait ABM out. Not sure what the best option is. Of course, the Thon/Bastila combination makes waiting it out harder since she doesn't even have to take a break at the end of rounds for a long time. And Thon's repulse is going to be another tough matchup for this squad even before ABM, so the Force Bubble would be even more important against that squad. The other thing Disra brings though, is Bribery, so there's a chance for just a little bit of customization since you can't use Lobot with Daala.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:53:43 PM
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They're going to be a little bit like Naboo squads, I reckon. They have a few really bad matchups, but if you go through a tournament without meeting your bad matchups, you could do really well.
DARPH NADER
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:10:09 PM
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I wouldn't quite say their a novelty but their not on the the level of a Naboo Trooper squad either. I think it is refreshing not to reach for Thrawn and to a lesser extent Ozzel each time an Imp build strikes me.
Galactic Funk
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:18:49 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
They're going to be a little bit like Naboo squads, I reckon. They have a few really bad matchups, but if you go through a tournament without meeting your bad matchups, you could do really well.


Speaking of Naboo, the Naboo Troopers are a pretty bad matchup for the Snow Charge too.


And another question; GARY or no GARY? I like him and Piett but maybe that's because I'm used to going 1st w/ Imps. You're guy that gets that deep strike may not live to use his cunning. He's so cheap that I almost feel that its a no brainer but maybe its not as useful as I think it would be.
DARPH NADER
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:32:35 PM
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So you build GARY in the base and use Pellaeon to swap out. These new Daala variants are going to be fun for example super stealth Scout Troopers etc...
Galactic Funk
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:36:40 PM
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Here's another one; is the Felucian Stormtrooper officer worth it to bump up Snowtroopers to a 24 defense in cover?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:21:22 PM
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Galactic Funk wrote:

Speaking of Naboo, the Naboo Troopers are a pretty bad matchup for the Snow Charge too.


How are they a bad matchup? The snowtroopers do 30dmg at +12 after charging 24. They should be able to base a Naboo on most maps. Trading a Snowtrooper for a Naboo is a great trade on a Pilot and basically breaks even on a Trooper. Death Shots aren't so scary when you don't really care if the target dies.

(My opinion, but again, assuming equally skilled players. I'm pretty sure DARPH NADER with RNAF would smoke me with Snowtroopers. But I would put that more on the players than the squads.)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:40:46 PM
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Galactic Funk wrote:

And another question; GARY or no GARY? I like him and Piett but maybe that's because I'm used to going 1st w/ Imps. You're guy that gets that deep strike may not live to use his cunning. He's so cheap that I almost feel that its a no brainer but maybe its not as useful as I think it would be.


I didn't take GARY or Piett just because Daala and the 2 Snowtrooper commanders already boost the Snowtroopers so far, and the plain Snowtroopers are so cheap. GARY + Piett = NINE snowtroopers. And they're already charging at +12/30dmg on deep strikes or staying home for +16/70dmg with squad abilities and a Czerka. I'd rather have 9 more snowtroopers with those stats than 9 fewer with another +4/10dmg.

You could perhaps drop the IE Snowtrooper Commander and Czerka to add GARY/Piett. Then you're only losing 2 Snowtroopers and you get a constant +12/40dmg on deep strikes and +12/50dmg staying home with Squad Firepower. I don't think that's a good tradeoff, even though GARY/Piett have more staying power than the Czerka.

GARY for the Czerka might be a decent trade since GARY's bonus extends for deep strikes and GARY is a pretty good attacker himself. +16 for 40dmg with Daala. Dropping the Snowtrooper Commander seems like a tougher sell, though. Once all the plain Snowtroopers are gone, he still benefits from Daala's Charging +10 and Squad Firepower since those effects don't specify followers. That makes him +12 for 40dmg (+16/50 if GARY is there) on the run. Add another 10dmg if he gets Squad Firepower.

Piett costs more than the Snowtrooper Commander, isn't another attacker, and his bonus just complements GARY... it doesn't make up for loss of +8atk the Snowtrooper Commander can bring. So I don't see Piett being worth dropping 5 plain Snowtroopers or the Snowtrooper Commander, even with a bunch of activations. I think Veers is more worth it to get Accurate Shot, but I didn't squeeze him in either.
Galactic Funk
Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 6:32:20 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Galactic Funk wrote:

Speaking of Naboo, the Naboo Troopers are a pretty bad matchup for the Snow Charge too.


How are they a bad matchup? The snowtroopers do 30dmg at +12 after charging 24. They should be able to base a Naboo on most maps. Trading a Snowtrooper for a Naboo is a great trade on a Pilot and basically breaks even on a Trooper. Death Shots are so scary when you don't really care if the target dies.

(My opinion, but again, assuming equally skilled players. I'm pretty sure DARPH NADER with RNAF would smoke me with Snowtroopers. But I would put that more on the players than the squads.)


A couple can go 24, not all of them. I guess I'm thinking that the Naboo troopers would be able to take out more Snowtroopers than the Snowtroopers can keep up with. The Naboo also have mobile which is a big deal. You could be right though. It would be interesting to see play out.
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