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Daala's Troopers vs Lancers Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, September 8, 2013 8:36:51 PM
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What can a Daala squad do to be safe from a Lancer?

I see these options, but the Lancer still seems like it would have a very strong advantage. There's a sample squad for each strategy.

* Moff Disra allows a Covert Ops Clone Trooper to come in. Also, you can use Bribery to bring in a Defel with SD20. Although the latter option seems kind of pointless. A charging Daala trooper can often kill the Lancer if he can catch up to it, and SD20 won't kill the Lancer anyway.
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/132398/charging-snowtroopers

* Simply swarm so much that you can afford to lose half your troopers. That's the idea here:
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/133564/more-and-deeper-snowtroopers
Spread out so much that you can't strafe everyone at once. Hope enough commanders survive that the surviving troops are strong enough to kill a strafer. This also out-activates most things (but some Poggle squads will beat it), so the Lancer might not be able to get 3 straight activations without a response.

* Include General Weir just to drop him with Pellaeon. Take a Nightsister Sith Mother and sacrifice Prideful. If not facing a Lancer, drop to one of Veers/Piett/Tierce/Isard to keep Prideful active.
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/133583/daalas-squad-snowtroopers

* Take some higher HP troops. But a Twinning Lancer that hits twice by outactivating and using a MTB will destroy the whole squad at once.
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/133582/sandtrooper-deep-strike


The Lancer will automatically have an advantage against these types of squads, but what's the best option to make it not-an-auto-loss?
Weeks
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:25:58 AM
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Vs single lancer if you can outact them and have disra steal some of their MTB fodder you'll be in a great position. They will have to sac San Hill and try to hit and run mid round. Just spread your guys out so the lancer can't get them all and charge and kill everything you can. You bein able to run 12 with all your troopers is very deadly and the lancer won't be able to hide all game.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:43:41 AM
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Weeks wrote:
Vs single lancer if you can outact them and have disra steal some of their MTB fodder you'll be in a great position. They will have to sac San Hill and try to hit and run mid round. Just spread your guys out so the lancer can't get them all and charge and kill everything you can. You bein able to run 12 with all your troopers is very deadly and the lancer won't be able to hide all game.


Is Disra/Covert Ops the way to go, then? The Disra build above doesn't fit in Ozzel, so it won't out-activate a San Hill Poggle squad in any case (even after stealing with Bribery).

The "More and Deeper" squad did have Ozzel, and it out-activates pretty much anything, including Poggle/San Hill. I played that squad once against Double Lancer, and I was able to do a deep strike with the Raxus Prime to get the 2nd Lancer before it did any damage. The first Lancer took out a pretty good chunk, though. The first Lancer came in right away... pawn/strafe before I could hide anybody. It was Offworld Shipping Center, and I was on the left... so I had exactly 2 strafe-safe squares, which held Daala/Mas. As you said, though, I was spread out enough that I still had plenty of troopers left and the Lancer died right away. And I had enough left to do the deep strike on the 2nd one, too.

This is the first time I've ever really thought about how to beat a Lancer. (My opponent never ran them before.) The traditional things I hear about as Lancer-counters just don't work with Daala's Prideful. No Riposte option. No Reflex/Quick Draw option. No reinforcements. No decent self-destruct that you can bring in with Bribery. Some maps are just horrendous against Lancers... not a single strafe-safe square in the starting zone or even easily reachable in the first round. Muunilist Plaza... ugh.
Sthlrd2
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2013 5:37:52 PM
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I just have a couple things to bring up and keep in mind.
1st) you said your friend who played you never played Lancer before. Might not be a good test of how well a squad can do against a Lancer then. Lancer is not an easy piece to play. It's difficult and you have to be nearly mistake free.

Accurate shot is also a counter to lancer when you have troopers that can hit for high damage. If you have accurate, it makes the Lancer player have to play mistake free.

Also remember that dealing 40 damage is almost just as good as killing it with 50. If you deal 40, then that means no more pawning and that hurts the Lancer tremendously.

Also keep in mind, if you are running the Disra/Covert Opps combo that spreading out is probably not the way to go as you will just be sacrificing those troops that are not near the covert opps guy. Keeping everyone huddled around that guy is more of a strafe deterrent in that scenario. If you go that route, then Watto makes the covert opps even better.
Cassus fett
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2013 6:26:00 PM
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I think the best idea out of the top suggested is to just take the MASSIVE out activation squad since then youcan afford a couple strafes
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, September 9, 2013 7:08:23 PM
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Sthlrd2 wrote:
I just have a couple things to bring up and keep in mind.
1st) you said your friend who played you never played Lancer before. Might not be a good test of how well a squad can do against a Lancer then. Lancer is not an easy piece to play. It's difficult and you have to be nearly mistake free.


Yes, but I don't know how else to test it. Maybe others will also try it out if the Daala squads look strong enough, and the top version will come out that way. Don't worry - I'm under no illusion that any of these squads will get an advantage against a Lancer, but every squad has a bad matchup. I'm just looking for a version that at least makes it into a game and not an auto-loss.

Quote:

Accurate shot is also a counter to lancer when you have troopers that can hit for high damage. If you have accurate, it makes the Lancer player have to play mistake free.

Yes, but if the Lancer only needs one pass to devastate the squad, and he can reach the squad in one phase, Accurate doesn't help much. Sad

Quote:

Also remember that dealing 40 damage is almost just as good as killing it with 50. If you deal 40, then that means no more pawning and that hurts the Lancer tremendously.

You can still pawn one more time if it has 40dmg but it dies. Versus a squad full of 20hp pieces, it might be worth it to wipe out the rest of the squad.

Quote:

Also keep in mind, if you are running the Disra/Covert Opps combo that spreading out is probably not the way to go as you will just be sacrificing those troops that are not near the covert opps guy. Keeping everyone huddled around that guy is more of a strafe deterrent in that scenario. If you go that route, then Watto makes the covert opps even better.

Watto is a great idea. Fitting him in might be tricky, though. I guess maybe 8 troopers is enough?
Galactic Funk
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 4:32:09 AM
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I don't think going the Covert Ops route is going to make sense because that is a build specifically to counter the Lancer and isn't your optimum build for most scenarios. Likewise Watto sounds great in a squad like that but w/o Lobot he needs to be in the base squad and that isn't going to be as solid a build for you in most matchups.

I think you have to go Pellaeon and ditch Disra. You need the flexibility with him imo.

For the best and most efficient build I think the best idea against Lancer is to have Veers in your base squad and spread out. If you face something else and can use something else more than Accurate drop Veers and add something else.
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 6:03:46 AM
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Just wait for Vset 7. Then you'll have a bag of options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 6:26:45 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Just wait for Vset 7. Then you'll have a bag of options


Fringe or Imperial? You may have just chosen my playtest faction.
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