Here's a link to the kickstarter:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1165033900/capital-city-epic-sci-fi-map-pack

Some images are posted on the main page, but some are only posted on the updates, so check those, too.

Now that almost all of the images are posted, I'm curious what people think about where the maps will land. Here are my initial thoughts...

(Capital City maps are from top to bottom... I don't know the official names yet.)
Starport District (Capital City 1)
Restricted

Business District (Capital City 2 - has the hotel/restaurant/cafe/office building)
Standard. Gambit is too wide open.

Financial District (Capital City 3 - has monument row )
Standard. Gambit is too wide open.

Residential District (Capital City 4 - has the gardens and apartment building)
Standard. Gambit is too wide open.

Ice Fortress North
My initial thought is Standard. The left-side starting zone looks too vulnerable. But I guess you'd only bring the map if your squad can handle starting there. So this could be a Restricted contender. The rest of the map looks like an interesting layout with interesting approaches.

Ice Fortress South
Standard. Looks like right has easy access to relatively protected gambit. Left has a tougher approach.

Dark Academy
Not sure on this one. Initial thought is Standard just because it looks so shooter-friendly with the long lines of sight into gambit. But there are a good number of doors and not very much hindering terrain, so melee can advance with some speed and safety if they play the doors right and can hide themselves. I would have to play on this one, but leaning Standard.

Great Library
Restricted. Only concern I see is that there are 3 narrow doors on each side to actually get into the library. Those choke points could cause a problem, but only in gameplay experience, not in balance since it's the same on both sides. So this one should wind up on the restricted list.

Alien Warzone (Vong Coruscant)
Standard. Gambit is too wide open.

Mercenary Base
Standard. Unprotected starting zones could be too susceptible to a Lancer. But easy access to buildings from the starting zone. Needs testing.

Oceanic Facility
Standard. Left side seems to have a pretty big gambit advantage. Most of gambit is inside the left building, and one square is inside the managing office, which can be reach in the first round with any sort of movement breaker. Right side can get to gambit in the first round without a movement breaker, but they are sitting ducks in an empty hallway to do that. I could be wrong about this one, though. JC had this pegged as the one most likely to make the restricted list.

Imperial Plaza
Restricted. Gambit in the street, in the security center and one square in the top left seat of the lounge gives a gambit advantage to the right side. Right side has lots of Lancer-safe squares but not so much on the left. Better approaches from the right, too. Overall, right side looks like a better starting side but not a strong enough advantage to keep it off the restricted list.

Tomb of the Acolytes
Standard. Concern here is the protection of the starting zones. Maybe 2 doors, some required winding around, and some statues in the way is enough. If so, this could be Restricted. But no rooms to hide in, not even an wall to hide behind really.

Output Oasis
(Wasn't yet revealed when I posted this.)

Wilderness Bunker
Open. Reminds me of the Endor bunker map. Nice looking map, but clearly a scenario map... right side starting zone is wide open.

Blue Squadron Base
(Wasn't yet revealed when I posted this.)


In summary, I see 3 maps for the Restricted list:
Starport District (Capital City 1)
Great Library
Imperial Plaza

And 5 more that might make it:
Ice Fortress North
Dark Academy
Oceanic Facility
Tomb of the Acolytes
Mercenary Base

Also, I "see" two more Restricted maps in the Capital City, but they aren't actually maps. The image at the top of the Kickstarter could be a Restricted map, but it's not an actual map. It's Capital City 2 and 3 put together (and then only showing the center part of that combination). But I think that combo-map could be on the Restricted list after trimming it to 22 squares high. Similarly, I think the bottom half of Capital City 3 and the top half of Capital City 4 would make a Restricted map. (Same idea as the other one - the big green building in the middle of the map.) Not that those should be on the official list, but for an individual skirmish I could see folding both maps in half and playing on them put together like that.

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EDIT: Now that I have the maps in hand I've edited for the official names.

The only one I'm not with you on is the Vongified city. It is a little hard to see exactly what is going on in gambit since it is pretty dark. There could be some terrain or doors that aren't obvious from the picture that change it a little bit. But otherwise I agree, most of them look a bit too open for Restricted

Wow Deri that map looks pretty sweet!

Hmm, at first i thought it was (there are 9 square landing zones for huges around the central gambit area) but it looks like there are one square openings to get to the center of the map which prevents squeezing.

I know i tried to get huges into the center and had difficulty when i was penciling the map, i thought Matt had cracked it, but maybe not.

It would be easy to fix with a few walls removed (8) as shown below. That would open up the center for huges, they won't be able to get from one side to the other or take gambit but they have LOS to a significant portion of the center.



as for the other maps, i'll have to take some time later to analyze them later.

I agree that not all maps need to be huge friendly (and there are definitely degrees of friendly), but is that also true for the restricted list? At the end of WotC, a restricted map that was huge-unfriendly wouldn't have mattered much because huges weren't competitive at all anyway. Now that they've received some boosts, this map would ignore the boosts and still give them an auto-loss. Maybe that's okay for the restricted list, maybe not. It depends on whether the community wants to write off huges for a season... or thinks that they still aren't strong enough to matter anyway. (Or maybe removing those walls would make it huge-friendly enough.)

Just some questions to ask.

Are there any real advocates for huges at the competitive level? If no one cares, then it probably doesn't matter.

I just played the new UROR on Bantha and it was a lot stronger than I expected. I don't know that it could be Tier 1, but it's possible. Sevrance Tann of course is a big boost. And we just got 5 other huges in the last set. But if huges are nixed by putting an auto-loss map on the Restricted List, it wouldn't really bother me.

Is TCW in charge of forming the Restricted List?

Any thoughts on the other maps? (Granted this is just from looking... not playtesting, so just guesses at this point.)

I think I can tweak the acolytes tomb to be restricted no problem.

As some of you know, competitive play wasn't really on my mind or Josh's mind when we designed a lot of these maps. It was a bit with the Jedi Library and the Vongformed world. I did think initially that Manaan was a keeper but I didn't end up running it throught the ringers like i've done restricted maps in the past.

Honestly, and I don't say this to forsake the organized players, but that overall crowd is dwindling. I'll always keep OVERALL GAMEPLAY in mind when I design, but maybe not COMPETITIVE as much anymore.There are already so many maps on the restricted list that don't even get used, we just kind of went into a different direction this time around. I really wanted to have FUN when i was designing the maps so I decided to go easy on myself and let my imagination take over.

I sincerely hope that doesn't alienate anyone. But the harsh truth is that Map Pack 5 is already our biggest seller of all time, and It really was because these were fun and beautiful maps more than they were restricted quality.

I can't speak for Josh, but when he designed the epic map I'm pretty sure he was going for the same thing.

I think that could be okay. He can still be involved in the fight by shooting or Melee Reaching into gambit. It's a tough match, perhaps, but no longer an auto-loss. If you bring a Leviathan and can't even bring it into the fight, that would pretty much be an auto-loss if that much of your squad is completely shut out of the fight.




I could be wrong. Just giving my initial thoughts, and I'm just one voice. I haven't played on it or heard anyone else's play reports (or even initial thoughts).

JC, I hear where you're coming from re: competitive and "just for fun" considerations when it comes to map design. I personally think that MP4 was by far the best mappack for the competitively-minded gamer, and I'm fine with this mappack being less competitively-driven. I'm a "happy backer." :)

Having said all that, I'd still like to see this Acolyte's Tomb map be included on the Restricted List. My preference would be to cut those 4 corners--if it would allow this thing to likely be part of the Restricted List. It's a minor adjustment to the map, but it will make a big difference in its usefulness.