Just curious, what was the criteria that you guys used to determine that a change was in order? I believe that I read that a decision would be made after the New Zealand Con and Frosti Con? Were these changes made based on the tournament results, something else, or a combination of things (Such as playtesting, community consensus, etc.)

Again, not a big deal, but just to keep the community fully informed, full disclosure and such, I think that this information would be huge for the trust and integrity of our game. Thanks so much,

It's a huge issue in NZ SWM. I've just been having a Facebook PM conversation with some other NZ players about v-set 8 pieces we're playtesting, and it's swung straight back to Daala and the Zygerrian. I know people have their pet hate pieces like Bastila, Mace, Poggle et al, but none of those have ever affected squad choice like Daala/Zygerrian are. Everyone knew Daala and Zygerrian were going to be major at HamilCon, and most people planned specific squads (lots of strafe) to counter them, but even the counter squads were ineffectual.

Daala was banned from FrostyCon, however a squad based around Zygerrian Slavers (with Ewoks) went through unbeaten, and its semi-final and final opponents conceded after map roll. Slaved Ewoks are nasty, slaved Troopers are even worse (at least IMO).




TimmerB (Daala/Raxus) beat Jason K playing Yobuck in testing before FrostyCon. Was a lockout win, but it's doable.




Builds with Pellaeon can crush Thon Song - he can't repulse, and the squad can't kill troopers fast enough.

We've established in New Zealand that Solo Charge gets hammered, so I imagine it's similar for other New Republic builds.

I think some Lancer builds can beat it, but it has to be played perfectly. The troopers have huge range with the Slaver.

Are you California guys playing Daala much?

Out-activating and waiting for the CEs to come back on doesn't work as well against the Thon Song build. With the extra force point, Bastila can turn on ABM at the beginning of round 2 and keep it on again in round 3. A lot can happen by the middle of round 4. Pellaeon doesn't protect them from ABM very well because the commanders have to be in the bubble, too. Disra could do the job, but he's way fragile. In any case, Pellaeon also takes out FR4, which is the ability Thon Song needs to clear out the troopers. Without that, the troopers can probably wait out multiple rounds against Bastila... harder, but still doable.

Daala sits in the bubble while your troopers charge from inside the bubble at +8 for 30. Although its only +8, it's from 20 troopers..

Just to be clear - we nerfed Daala AND the Zygerrian BEFORE the game. We took away rapport (lost me 5 troopers) and made it so that Slave Driver replaced TURN, and had to be UNDER their cost (no whipping each other).

Even with those changes, I was able to win. I did the lockout because:

A) I wanted to prove the point
B) In a highly competitive game I would have done that (GenCon top 8 and such)
C) It wasn't fun, I didn't want to play anymore.

But It wasn't like I was behind and I had to lockout as my only way to win. I think I could have won anyway. I still outactivated him, still had all my commanders (or most) and still had override while he had none. Yodabuck was dead, and so was R2. I just don't think he could have killed the rest with just Dash and Skywalker when I could just lock up. That usually spells if nothing else a slow arduous full victory - but I figure why not just say - OK - I'm ahead by more than 25 points - I'm just locking down. Playtest over.

If a Daala squad (any Daala squad, much less a Raxus prime Daala squad), AFTER having nerfed the Zygerrian AND Daala, doesn't get absolutely crushed by Yodabuck - then there is a problem. Yodabuck, run by an experienced Yodabuck player (and excellent player in general - that Jason inarguably is) - should smoke a trooper squad that is being run by someone FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.

I had never played either Daala or a Zygerrian before we sat down. Didn't practice, total rookie with this squad type.

And yet I won. And I could have played it better.

I'll be honest - I didn't think we were going to have to take such an extreme measure on the Zygerrian before the playtest. After round 1 my eyes were opened. I didn't really realize how far they could make pieces go. Even though I'd read the reports and I was anti Zygerrian Slaver from moment 1 (the Chicago guys were sick of me bitching about it for the last 6 months) - I still had no idea truly how abusable it was. I was annoyed because I thought it only really helped squads that didn't need help (poggle bombs, Naboo Troopers, Thrawn swap). Once I was actually moving the pieces on the map during a game, I literally laughed out loud. I said, "This is NUTS!" We continued on, but it truly did not sink in until I was moving the pieces how ridiculous it was. I truly didn't realize HOW BAD IT REALLY WAS.

Even still I had hopes for nerfing the slave driver ability but still keeping some form of it, but those hopes were extinguished when Jason dominated with his Ewoks, due in large part to the Zygerrians. Once that happened, and we really started analyzing it - there was no doubt it had to go.

Perhaps if it was "Characters named ugnaught demolitionist", then it might work. Wait - no, then it's still a movement breaker for swapped ewoks. And until Jason owned everyone that seemed laughable.

Movement breakers are a HUGE deal in this game. I might argue that they are the single biggest deal in the game. There's a reason that Thrawn has been a mainstay in Imperials, Ganner in the NR, R2 in the Republic, Kelborn now in the Mandos . . . Movement breakers.

Now clearly this one was attempted to be limited. But the lesson learned here is that ANY movement breaker needs to be carefully thought out. And we should probably never again attempt ANY kind of movement breaker on a cheap fringe non-unique.

The worst part of the abuse of the Zygerrians, is that you can literally stay in your starting area, keep doors locked, out-activate, unlock, send a ewok or trooper missile ANYWHERE you want to go, and cripple your opponent. And it's an expendable 3-4 point piece. And you have a dozen or more of them. It's the ultimate non-engagement squad. It's horrible. It makes games no fun for either side.


Daala is clearly the lesser problem, and always has been. I for one love the concept of her, and didn't want her to leave the meta entirely (just not completely warp it).

There were different opinions on how much to nerf her - in the end it was somewhere in the middle as far as severity, but certainly less than the Zygerrian. She still is the same character, and I still expect her to be competitive. Hopefully we straddled that fine line to not kill her outright, but make her just one more of many, highly competitive but beatable squads. Time will tell.


I am glad we did the playtesting, and Jason showed so solidly in a tournament completely separate Zygerrian abuse. It really helps to see it all. I learned a lot, and I think the whole design team did too.

I actually did have pre-convieved notions on what should happen - but playtesting changed my opinions.

Even though Daala didn't get the EXACT change I would have liked, I am overall very happy with the changes, and We'll see what happens in the meta

No need to thank me - I'm just a small part. Bottom line is that I love this game too. I think everyone involved at this point does. It really is a community effort to make sure we do what's best for everyone.

Now maybe everyone will start enjoying their vset 7 pieces!!!

Daala's Rapport had to go. When stacked in a squad with troopers she basically cost 5 points to grant +4/20dmg and a movement breaker to the troopers.

I was in the camp to keep the +10 damage on the Charging Fire (especially since it would have meant the gameplay doesn't change - only the squadbuilding), but even without the +10 you can get a lot of movement and damage out of a 5 point trooper.

why the rehash?

shouldn't we no the errata by now?

Same can be said about Poogle, Vset Windu (just throwing an examples here) and yet nothing was actually done about them. (I'm not counting No Disentegrations as a fix)