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Armed and Operational/Invasion - Five Best Pieces? Options
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:09:08 PM
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With Regional season fast approaching, what do you think are the five pieces from the new set and micro set that will make the biggest splash. Feels like we've been talking a lot of Daala/Zygerrian, and the new sets have been on the back burner a bit.

I'm thinking:
Commander Sha'kel - a tank with Doctrine of Fear, Embrace of Pain, and Crab Armour, and with the Princess Leia CE (the CE that won GenCon three years in a row).

Tantive IV Trooper - best thing the Rebels have got all v-sets IMO. Cheap, good attack, and Heroic Stand definitely adds another dimension to Rebel squads.

Zenoc Quah - Shaper with lots of candy - evade, Jedi Hatred, and +4 attack. Going to be the shaper of choice for most Vong squads, right?

Yoda, Hero of Geonosis - I think he's the best of the 100 point pieces. He's going to get instant kills on pieces that are 90 hp or less, and has a ton of movement with R2 and Leaping Assault. Still might not be Tier 1, but I think people will run him.

Arkanian Jedi General - GMA Old Republic Troopers are pretty cool. Doesn't necessarily have the access to movement/tempo to really stand in the top tiers, but all the damage could really ruin some squads' day.

Honourable mentions to the Buzz Droid and Mando Demolitionist - I think they'll both get a ton of play, but since they're more support pieces, I didn't list them.
Deathwielded
Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:38:59 PM
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These are my top 5
Arkanian Jedi General For making a new OR squad type.

Darth Bane, Sith'ari Best Tank buster that we got, absolutely killer.

Commander Sha'kel Best piece we got for the Vong since the Yommosk IMO.

Dray Going to help many squad types.

Buzz Droids Finally a good reinforcements option to counter Lancer strafers!

There are many other great pieces, these are just my top 5.
Darth O
Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 5:08:16 PM
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Valenthyne Farfalla
Buzz Droid
Commander Sha'kel
Dray
Darth Bane, Sith'ari
DARPH NADER
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 2:28:23 AM
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My fast five descending order...

5. Oppo Rancisis
4. Yoda HoG
3. Zenoc
2. The Sith'ari on safari
1. Dray

Honorable mentions to Barriss and the Tantive IV's
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:10:31 AM
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TheHutts wrote:

Commander Sha'kel - a tank with Doctrine of Fear, Embrace of Pain, and Crab Armour, and with the Princess Leia CE (the CE that won GenCon three years in a row).


It's not just Leia's CE. They first get the second half of Mando the Vin's CE (1 ally moves speed), THEN Leia's CE (attack at +4), Then it's the second half of Shimmra's CE (If the attack fails, that character dies and all YV allies gain +1 cumulative.)

It's like 3 CEs in 1.

At the end of this character's turn, 1 Yuuzhan Vong follower without Shamed One within 6 squares may immediately move up to its speed. That follower may make an attack at +4 Attack. If the attack misses, the attacker is defeated and all other Yuuzhan Vong allies get +1 Attack. (This bonus is cumulative.)

So in one way it has an advantage over Leia's CE - the ally gets to move 6 first (in part to make up for the fact that every single figure that can use this CE is currently Melee, and in part just to speed up the Vong), but there is a major risk with a slight silver lining.

it's important to know that with this CE you CAN move a character without attacking, and therefore without risk. Also - you can not move but still use the attack portion. BUT if you attack with this CE, you always risk the second half - miss and you die.

So his main thing is his CE, but you have a conundrum how to use him in the fight. Obviously Doctrine of Fear encourages you to get up in there. That coupled with Embrace of Pain can be quite nasty. Paired with Minos he has Opportunist as well. But if you lose him, you lose a lot.

As last minute additions, we added Disciplined Leader since it would be so easy to counter melee from gaining this with disruptive or even distraction. As well as Firejelly - can't lock this tank out for too long.

He didn't start out with the intention of becoming the shining star of the Vong, but as his design evolved we saw opportunity for something that the Vong really needed. Can't wait to see him in action!

TheHutts wrote:

Zenoc Quah - Shaper with lots of candy - evade, Jedi Hatred, and +4 attack. Going to be the shaper of choice for most Vong squads, right?


Actually I don't think so. I had a large hand in designing this guy, but I think he won't become super popular due to his major downside. He's a stacked figure - Shaper, Evade and +4 attack, with a possible ADDITIONAL damage bonus.

But his downside is MAJOR. Rival [Cannot be in a squad with any non-Yuuzhan Vong characters or characters with Outsider]

Some people have overlooked it completely (I've seen a couple players make squads that have Lobot, or peace brigade, or Viqi).

The big issue is door control. I fear Zenoc squads will spend a large part of the game behind locked doors. The only thing they can use is fire jelly. And if you are trying to get the Specialization bonus (Specialization [Allies gain Jedi Hatred +10. Ignore this ability if any ally counts as having the same name as another ally.]) you can only have a few characters with firejelly (a big reason why we put it on Zenoc and Sha'kel last minute).

Also - Specialization is pretty tricky to get, since now days nearly EVERY OTHER Vong character "Counts as being named Yuuzhan Vong Warrior"

-Note that Minos, YV Warrior has YV Warrior in his name, but he doesn't count as having the same name as anyone else. He IS a YV Warrior, but he is not count as NAMED (only) Yuuzhan Vong Warrior - tricky distinction. So you can use him and another YV Warrior - likely the Quednek.


Going along with the Vong - I think Harrar has been overlooked. He's a pretty sweet package. He's tricky to fit into squads, but he as a lot of fun tricks ("Yun-Harla is said to reserve her most cunning tricks, for those most devoted to her." -- Harrar).

He has the typical Priest's scarification (Wounded Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares get +4 Attack and +10 Damage), but he has ways of both helping his squad get scarred, as well as keeping them alive.

The auto save fail (enemies and allies alike) is an instant way to make sure your YV allies with crab armor take damage if you want to start out scarring them with Momaw or a YV Seer. Beyond that, Yun Harla Devotion makes any Vong within 6 a bodyguard that works 50/50 (against non-adjacent attacks). So you can send a big hit to a scrub, or you can pass that damage being shot at you around to make sure everyone stays alive longer and has the scarification bonus when they get to the fight. Make the sacrifice at the beginning of the round (like the MTB only optional) and all YV on your squad get it. The YV Seer also synergizes even more by making Yun-Harla Devotion an 8 square range.


Continuing of with YV tech - we focused on adding pieces to prevent some of the major near auto-losses Vong had.

The YV Seer helps Vong Spit swarms compete with disruptive.

The Shaper Adept helps them compete with Droids.

The Tso-asu helps them compete with Strafe and Galloping Attack.

Most likely any of these 3 are brought in through Supreme Overlord Quorreal's reinforcements when needed.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:45:19 AM
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TheHutts wrote:

Tantive IV Trooper - best thing the Rebels have got all v-sets IMO. Cheap, good attack, and Heroic Stand definitely adds another dimension to Rebel squads.

Agreed!

TheHutts wrote:

Yoda, Hero of Geonosis - I think he's the best of the 100 point pieces. He's going to get instant kills on pieces that are 90 hp or less, and has a ton of movement with R2 and Leaping Assault. Still might not be Tier 1, but I think people will run him.


No doubt he's a beast, but a very good player (GenCon top 8 finisher, multiple time regional champion) played him at Frosty-Con and went 1-3. I just really think squads based around 100pt beatsticks are too 1 dimensional. They can take out certain squadtypes, but just don't have the adaptability to deal with many others. Not tier 1

TheHutts wrote:

Arkanian Jedi General - GMA Old Republic Troopers are pretty cool. Doesn't necessarily have the access to movement/tempo to really stand in the top tiers, but all the damage could really ruin some squads' day.


Also not tier 1 IMO. It's a start to try and temp players away from Bastila, but like you mentioned - without a way to deal with act control and no major movement breakers, it still ends up lacking. That being said - we don't want another Daala mistake on our hands. It will take several small steps to bust up OR Bastila dependence. One large leap could end up an NPE for everyone.

TheHutts wrote:

Honourable mentions to the Buzz Droid and Mando Demolitionist - I think they'll both get a ton of play, but since they're more support pieces, I didn't list them.


Agreed, though I think the LIN Demolitionmech is the greater strafe hate reinforcement option. 1 buzz droid and 1 LIN may be a frequent combo vs strafe.

Other tech pieces that deserve honorable mentions IMO are:
Covenant Executor (gives force leap to OR jedi),
Sorcerer Acolyte (gives stealth to adjacent NUs and cover for all to Sith, as well as Sith Sorcery lite),
Davin Felth (Didn't believe it until I played him. He's the ultimate Lobot, R7 or R2-D2 killer.)
Givin Black Sun Slicer (Living override, can be swapped and other CEs. Master slicer is bonus)
Mandolorian Strike Force Leader (Always useful +2 attack, and can be a well timed counter to the blasted Czerka Shield Tech).


I see a lot of votes for Bane. I think he's very good but not quite great. He's a tank buster all right, but a well build scissor squad will cut him to bits.

I also see lots of votes for Dray. Interesting. Can't wait to see how people use him. I think he's just a bit overcosted to be really super useful, but I look forward to seeing what squads he ends up in.

Very curious to see Oppo Rancisis mentioned. No idea how to best use him.


Not mentioned here yet but I believe deserve to be:

Darth Maul, Deathwatch Overlord - Really mainly for the Mandos. A cloaked beatstick, can run some serious melee interference while your guns light it up.

Master Tholme - A total brick. Very annoying to face, but if used well can be devastating.

Barriss Offee - glad she was finally mentioned. Excellent little package. Mines + Stealth + Twin + Loner + Riposte = Sweet!

Ghes Orade - Sniper + protective + bodyguard + Fenn Shysa's CE = nastiness. Mobile + Beskargam are icing.

Viqi Shesh - Lobot replacement with Advanced Door Gimmick, and a bonus for the peace brigade

Kam Solusar - A beast! If played right you essentially force your opponent to kill him first, and NR has the synergy to keep him alive and hurting the enemy in the process.

TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:58:56 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:

Darth Maul, Deathwatch Overlord - Really mainly for the Mandos. A cloaked beatstick, can run some serious melee interference while your guns light it up.

Ghes Orade - Sniper + protective + bodyguard + Fenn Shysa's CE = nastiness. Mobile + Beskargam are icing.


Cool - I was considering both of these guys for the list and probably should have gone Maul over Yoda, but haven't played Mandos for a while and haven't put either on the table yet. I do think Maul looks really good for Cloaked, beefy relay orders in Mandos with Kelborn (and not necessarily with Death Watch). Easy to hand out stuff like Twin and Death Shots.

I've been assuming Zenoc and Sha'kel are a natural pair, but I guess I should be trying Sha'kel with different squads. Lack of door control in the Vong pure squad is definitely a drawback. I wonder if Zenoc is worthwhile playing without Specialization? You still get Shaper, evade and +4 for Vong followers, just no Jedi Hatred - but no access to override either way.

TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:35:16 AM
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With Zenoc you can also have da'Gara, who gives firejelly to scouts. Then depending on what you face, you can choose to bring in a bunch of scouts with reinforcements (vs non force users) or just 1 or 2.

Also, it kicks in when the conditions are met. It's not like prideful in that you have to build your squad that way.

In other words, you can start out with 3-5 Zonoma Sekot scouts, send them out to melt all the doors you need gone, then harass the enemy until they are dead. Once you're down to 1 it kicks in.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:51:29 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
With Zenoc you can also have da'Gara, who gives firejelly to scouts. Then depending on what you face, you can choose to bring in a bunch of scouts with reinforcements (vs non force users) or just 1 or 2.

Also, it kicks in when the conditions are met. It's not like prideful in that you have to build your squad that way.

In other words, you can start out with 3-5 Zonoma Sekot scouts, send them out to melt all the doors you need gone, then harass the enemy until they are dead. Once you're down to 1 it kicks in.
I like a lot of V-Set 7, but IMHO, the new Vong options are a stroke of genius. Lots of good and creative thinking went into these designs, and they open up a bunch of new options for the Vong.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 3:04:12 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
With Zenoc you can also have da'Gara, who gives firejelly to scouts. Then depending on what you face, you can choose to bring in a bunch of scouts with reinforcements (vs non force users) or just 1 or 2.

Also, it kicks in when the conditions are met. It's not like prideful in that you have to build your squad that way.

In other words, you can start out with 3-5 Zonoma Sekot scouts, send them out to melt all the doors you need gone, then harass the enemy until they are dead. Once you're down to 1 it kicks in.
I like a lot of V-Set 7, but IMHO, the new Vong options are a stroke of genius. Lots of good and creative thinking went into these designs, and they open up a bunch of new options for the Vong.


A lot of credit goes to Jake K for that. He and I worked hand in hand on Vong concepts for that set. Without a doubt still a team effort though. As I mentioned, Sha'kel changed significantly over his design process, and I think it was Deri that helped steer him to his CE.
General_Grievous
Posted: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:58:51 PM
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Valenthyne Farfalla (great OR option and very fitting for his character, I love what he does with Hoth too!

Alema Rar! Such a cool cheap sith. Along with Vestara from last set I am loving these cheap sith heroes!

Pong Krell, this guy is a reserves beast and I forsee many squads with him and Kazdan. I hope to see more reserves pieces like this. Maybe a Sep Sideous who is cheap and has sense the future and anticipation.

Barriss Offee, mines, twin, grip and stealth on a fringe piece? Yes please, and again another cheap option who reflects the character perfectly. Great job!

Count Dooku, this is one of my new favourite pieces. Exactly what he should be, and him combined with Grievous HoH is deadly, so extra bonus there haha. Also Chain lightning is beautiful.


Honourable mention to the amazing Vong. And I can echo the statements of those above about their amazing design and fresh ideas this set. I personally really really like Yuusha and a swarm of Shamed ones with Zenoc and the old Lah. Anything that creates more swarms (my favourite play style, followed by reserves) is cool with me.

Oh and Prowl+Finn is super cool! Can you please do this again with Jax and I5YQ, as well as Rianna and Zeeo?

And finally mad respect for the strafe counters, my swarms thank you haha.
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