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Force Pull and Mines Options
DarthMaim
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 1:09:05 AM
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Joined: 7/27/2008
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So I can use Aayla Secura ( Force Pull ), bring an enemy to my LIN Demolitionmech ( all within 6 ), and move the enemy in and out of an adjacent space of the mines character and cause the enemy to keep making saves, until he fails enough saves to kill the enemy mini? This is based on the rulings of Force Pull and Mines. If this is the case, this is highly overpowered. For 41 pts, this is auto-kill to any mini within 6. Everyone's thoughts please.............................
countrydude82487
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:01:52 AM
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i would think you could pull them trough spaces thqat would bring them adjacent to you. But i dont think you could keep cycling it until they die. I know that you can bring them into a pit which can potentially kill them.
DarthMaim
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:35:12 AM
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countrydude82487 wrote:
i would think you could pull them through spaces that would bring them adjacent to you. But i dont think you could keep cycling it until they die. I know that you can bring them into a pit which can potentially kill them.


Where does it state that you can't keep cycling the enemy mini until it dies? Is there errata on this? There's nothing that states that you cannot do this.

Flying Arrow states "Force pull can move a piece however you wish, so long as the ending square is legal".


Sithborg even says, "In theory, you could run around the whole map, as long as you ended up in the right spot. Even moving through figures."

*Glossary Text- Mines 20

If an enemy moves into a square adjacent to this character, that enemy takes 20 damage. This damage can be avoided with a save of 11.

This doesn't rule out moving in and out of the space adjacent to Mines, having to only save 11 one time.

Please correct me if I am wrong, and show me where it clarifies this action. Thank you :)










FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:20:45 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
--Rules Lawyer For The Win!--
43 Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth
29 Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight
24 Roron Corobb
23 Captain Panaka
23 Foul Moudama
21 The Dark Woman
12 LIN Demolitionmech
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid

(200pts. 10 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140981/rules-lawyer-for-the-win-

I suspect that this loophole will be closed soon. But as of today the loophole exists.
juice man
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:36:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
This is how my thought goes.
Force Push - you may move the target away from you, never closer to you, using logic (admittedly not good in this game) you should only be allowed to pull the target closer to you with Force Pull.

I can see dragging someone through several Mined spaces, but not bouncing them like a paddle-ball.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 1:31:41 PM
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Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
juice man wrote:
This is how my thought goes.
Force Push - you may move the target away from you, never closer to you, using logic (admittedly not good in this game) you should only be allowed to pull the target closer to you with Force Pull.


That's how I see it as well: Choose a square adjacent to the puller, then move the character towards that spot without ever moving further away.

Unfortunately, since it's worded like Levitation, we've got the loophole where you can just fling people around willy-nilly.
atmsalad
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 4:14:51 PM
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EmporerDragon wrote:
juice man wrote:
This is how my thought goes.
Force Push - you may move the target away from you, never closer to you, using logic (admittedly not good in this game) you should only be allowed to pull the target closer to you with Force Pull.


That's how I see it as well: Choose a square adjacent to the puller, then move the character towards that spot without ever moving further away.

Unfortunately, since it's worded like Levitation, we've got the loophole where you can just fling people around willy-nilly.


agreed, and I am always for rulings that make the game more practical without taking away from the gameplay or the fan that can be had.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 5:48:19 PM
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
juice man wrote:
This is how my thought goes.
Force Push - you may move the target away from you, never closer to you, using logic (admittedly not good in this game) you should only be allowed to pull the target closer to you with Force Pull.

I can see dragging someone through several Mined spaces, but not bouncing them like a paddle-ball.


The difference between Push and Pull is that Push defines a number of squares the enemy character can be moved, and says the target has to be moved "back." Pull just says you bring them adjacent. It actually doesn't even use the word "toward," which would support a reading that every square has to be closer to the puller. What probably needs to happen is to have a sentence added to the glossary, specifying that the target cannot be moved more than six squares in total.
DarthMaim
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 10:50:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/27/2008
Posts: 1,192
Location: Los Angeles, California
FlyingArrow wrote:
--Rules Lawyer For The Win!--
43 Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth
29 Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight
24 Roron Corobb
23 Captain Panaka
23 Foul Moudama
21 The Dark Woman
12 LIN Demolitionmech
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid

(200pts. 10 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/140981/rules-lawyer-for-the-win-

I suspect that this loophole will be closed soon. But as of today the loophole exists.




So you can camp your "LIN Demolitionmech" in your starting area, run Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight, up to your opponants camp, activate "Force Pull" on an enemy piece within 6, move that enemy, all the way across the map to move in an out of an adjacent square to the LIN Demolitionmech, and keep doing that until he fails all the mines saves, hit points go to zero, then move the enemy mini back adjacent to Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight! That's crazy shit right there. WOW!!!!! Super ridiculous. IMHO, there should be an errata, or something added to "Force Pull" that states you can only move the enemy character 6 squares. Totally broken guys......................................
EmporerDragon
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:09:52 PM
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Yes, it is broken. It's just been unnoticed for so long as most players tend to go by the old adage of "Don't be a dick".
juice man
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:37:56 PM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
EmporerDragon wrote:
Yes, it is broken. It's just been unnoticed for so long as most players tend to go by the old adage of "Don't be a dick".
Funny. Made me chuckle.BigGrin Perhaps some players are more comfortable with clearly written rules. (something SWM's is not known for)
juice man
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:40:00 PM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
UrbanShmi wrote:
juice man wrote:
This is how my thought goes.
Force Push - you may move the target away from you, never closer to you, using logic (admittedly not good in this game) you should only be allowed to pull the target closer to you with Force Pull.

I can see dragging someone through several Mined spaces, but not bouncing them like a paddle-ball.


The difference between Push and Pull is that Push defines a number of squares the enemy character can be moved, and says the target has to be moved "back." Pull just says you bring them adjacent. It actually doesn't even use the word "toward," which would support a reading that every square has to be closer to the puller. What probably needs to happen is to have a sentence added to the glossary, specifying that the target cannot be moved more than six squares in total.
And/or the word "toward".
Amadeus
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 1:14:37 PM
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Joined: 2/14/2014
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What might also work is specifying that the target must take the shortest route from their starting position to an adjacent square.
DarthMaim
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 2:55:08 PM
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Joined: 7/27/2008
Posts: 1,192
Location: Los Angeles, California
Here's mine!

--Auto-Kill Mayhem--
39 Gantoris
31 Zekk
29 Ganner Rhysode
23 Anakin Solo
23 General Wedge Antilles
14 Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit
12 LIN Demolitionmech
9 General Dodonna
7 Felucian
12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(199pts. 13 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/141307/auto-kill-mayhem
Joseph blob
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:45:58 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2012
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Location: Lost in the Unknown Regions with 20 Ewoks
I'm sorry but this is totally hilarious! LOL Did we ever get an official ruling on this? If this is actually ligament then I foresee some unhappy (putting that mildly) opponents in my up coming games. Amazing idea!
Echo24
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:52:41 PM
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Joined: 9/30/2008
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That is obviously not how it works. I'm on my phone so I don't have good wording for why it doesn't in front of me, but as a designer I guarantee you it will not be ruled that way.
atmsalad
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 4:12:05 PM
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Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 951
I think we need a ruling on this before somebody shows up at a regional with one of these squads...
SignerJ
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:11:25 PM
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Joined: 1/2/2012
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Echo24 wrote:
That is obviously not how it works. I'm on my phone so I don't have good wording for why it doesn't in front of me, but as a designer I guarantee you it will not be ruled that way.


The issue is that, from the rulings compiled by FlyingArrow, it would seem that it has been ruled that way, at least for now. Hopefully, the ruling will be changed soon.
DarthMaim
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:21:14 PM
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Location: Los Angeles, California
EmporerDragon wrote:
Yes, it is broken. It's just been unnoticed for so long as most players tend to go by the old adage of "Don't be a dick".


With all the Jedi hate in our game today, Force Immunity, Ysalamiri, cloak, self destruct, Jedi Hatred, 5 pts minis with speed 8 that have twin for potentially 60 dmg (opportunist and deceptive) and that can do the same after dying, and 5 pt minis that have charging and can possibly do 40 dmg and twin (Czerka) in a Force immune bubble, I'm not so sure who the real dicks are nowadays?

How about some love for the Jedi's SWM's community????????????????????

In the movie's the baddest of the badasses-Jedi's ruled the Star Wars Universe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am actually starting to miss when Darth Vader ruled back in the original base set "Rebel Storm". And how about when Darth Bane came out in Champions of the Force. Man he was so cool and awesome! Lord Vader in Bounty Hunters was the shit!!!!!!

When a 5 pts scrub can shoot down an 82pt piece, blasted something went really wrong with this game!

In my neck of the woods, over the years, a lot of people quit playing the game. My closest friend and ally in SWM, recently quit the game, tired of the Jedi hate. I had to call a group mtg, to do some more tweaking and vote on additional house rules at our LGS, to stop the bleeding to Jedi's. My friend, who incidentally has invested thousands of dollars into the game since Rebel Storm, only after some new house rules to help Jedi's, has started to join us again.

I really hope that you designers start giving Jedi some help and start balancing the game back to UNIQUE JEDI's-Light and Dark Side............................................................Thank you............off my soapbox :)

PS
Not saying that I like the whole move your piece across the board thing to my mines back at my camp :)
fingersandteeth
Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:32:45 PM
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The path of force pull is directly back toward the character (inverse of push). There isn't a choice unless there are 2 or more closest routs to the adjacent spot.
You can't move anyone if there is no adjacent spot.

The movement ignores other characters.

The movement triggers mines.

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