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YV, don't hurt them, just kill them Options
Eroschilles
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:59:11 AM
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YV, don't hurt them, just kill them
--YV, don't hurt them, just kill them--
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
60 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x3
19 Yomin Carr
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
11 Advance Agent, Officer
6 Mouse Droid x2
(150pts. 10 activations)

Look, judge, and rate please. They can get shot up, but not many options for vong getting around that. This will hurt jedi tho.
shinja
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:40:22 AM
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So the 18 point Praetorite Vong Priest gives the Jedi Hunters +4 Attack and +10 Damage when they are wounded and within 6 of the Priest (assuming the oh-so-fragile Priest is still alive).

What if there were a Vong commander that couldn't die, and that gave the Jedi Hunters +10 HP, +2 Defense, and +1 Attack with unlimited range for the same cost as the Priest? Is that a good trade off?

What I'm getting at, is that I'd drop the 3 JHs and the Priest for 3 Ossus Guardians.
Omnus
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:46:35 AM
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shinja wrote:
So the 18 point Praetorite Vong Priest gives the Jedi Hunters +4 Attack and +10 Damage when they are wounded and within 6 of the Priest (assuming the oh-so-fragile Priest is still alive).

What if there were a Vong commander that couldn't die, and that gave the Jedi Hunters +10 HP, +2 Defense, and +1 Attack with unlimited range for the same cost as the Priest? Is that a good trade off?

What I'm getting at, is that I'd drop the 3 JHs and the Priest for 3 Ossus Guardians.


Then lets drops the shaper for a corsec officer and work in dodonna : )
awesome
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:48:20 AM
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Well I dont agree with droping the priest, but Id drop like 1 of the jedi hunters for a human body guard and some 9 pointer.
LoboStele
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:56:27 AM
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Well, relying on Lobot as your only form of Door control is pretty risky, IMO. And honestly, I've never really liked the Advance Agent Officer. If you want some Cunning Attack, then drop the officer, and run the Ossus Guardian instead of one of the Jedi Hunters. That would still leave you 5 more points left over to add something else.

And you really probably should run a bodyguard of some sort for the Priest/Shaper. If you do face Jedi it's not too bad, since they have to get past your Jedi Hunters to hit the Priest/Shaper (which they may just do too, just to take away your bonuses though). But if you face any accurate shooters, you'd be in big trouble. The Priest/Shaper will get pasted the first time they show their faces, and it's tough to keep them completely protected once the real fighting starts anyways, since they have to be within 6 of the JHs.
awesome
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 10:06:32 AM
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LoboStele wrote:
Well, relying on Lobot as your only form of Door control is pretty risky, IMO. And honestly, I've never really liked the Advance Agent Officer. If you want some Cunning Attack, then drop the officer, and run the Ossus Guardian instead of one of the Jedi Hunters. That would still leave you 5 more points left over to add something else.

And you really probably should run a bodyguard of some sort for the Priest/Shaper. If you do face Jedi it's not too bad, since they have to get past your Jedi Hunters to hit the Priest/Shaper (which they may just do too, just to take away your bonuses though). But if you face any accurate shooters, you'd be in big trouble. The Priest/Shaper will get pasted the first time they show their faces, and it's tough to keep them completely protected once the real fighting starts anyways, since they have to be within 6 of the JHs.


Yeah, I think that you do need an Ossus because the Jedi hunter's being good, but the Ossus are just way better, Im not too big of fan now of the vong as before but Id take out the officer for a bodyguard and I probably wouldnt keep the shaper(but thats just because to me they just sit behind everyone doing nothing)

and I think you need a shooter,
ken_watson76
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 11:18:58 AM
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Being a somewhat experienced Vong player, here's my two cents:

#1 - You do not need Mouse Droids. Vong are melee to the extreme, and are going to be bunched together anyhow. The Mouse Droids provide no benefit for the two major SAs that you're working with (Shaper and Scarification), so really only work for Cunning from the Officer and Poison from Carr. I would either ditch both, or trade one for an Ug (per the discussion about the risks of Lobot as your sole door control). There is one exception to never running Mouse Droids with Vong, which is explained below.

#2 - I have felt the pain of Accurate shooters versus your Shaper (and now, the Priest). What I did was either use Nom to SS her (not a viable option for 150 points) or run the Warmaster into adjacency with the Accurate shooter to "tie it up" while everyone else catches up (extremely risky, and not an option for what you want to do; it's also why I lost to Boba BH). You could get the RBSV, which is the only reason why Mouse Droids could be viable for Vong. Otherwise, play very carefully, hope your map isn't wide open, and invest in at least one bodyguard.

#3 - To make points for some of these ideas, I would consider dropping Yomin Carr. I REALLY like his spit poison CE, particularly because it gives the Shaper, the Agent, and Scouts (and the Priest) something useful to do with their activation. But I'm not sure he works for what you're trying to do. Or you could drop Lobot, provided you replace the MDs with Ugs (I can just hear people yelling at me for saying that...)

Oh, and I don't think Vong need shooters. If you can get the bulk of your squad where they need to be, through very careful maneuvering, Vong are SCARY.
LoboStele
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 1:33:04 AM
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If you have Spit Poison, you definitely don't need shooters.

Ken makes some good suggestions. The RBSV could be brutal, but probably tough to use at 150 points.

The Advance Agent Officer is just not worth it, especially with the new initiative rules. You'll get to use Cunning Attack on 1, MAYBE 2 pieces at best in any given round. So that's why the Ossus guardian is so much better.

Honestly, I'd just drop the AoO, swap a JH with an OG, then add in an Ugnaught. Probably only need 1 Mouse Droid as well. As Ken was saying, the only thing you really need the Mouse for is Yomin's CE (assuming you drop the AOO), and the cool thing is that since Yomin has Stealth, he can typically sit behind your JH/OG's pretty safely (beware of Accurate shooters still).

And for me, I would drop either the Shaper or the Priest before I would drop Yomin. Spit Poison 20 is essentially at 150 in order to give the JHs something substantial to do as they make their approach.
Eroschilles
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:09:22 AM
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I'm embarrased to admit I'm not sure what a RBSV is, I know the TBSV (twilek) and the BBSV (bith), but not the RBSV Blushing .

The JHs have thud bug, which has worked for me in the past, even though it's only 10 damage.

I changed it a little to work in a OG.

--YV, don't hurt them, just kill them--
26 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
40 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x2
19 Yomin Carr
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(148pts. 10 activations)
awesome
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:27:21 AM
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Eroschilles wrote:
I'm embarrased to admit I'm not sure what a RBSV is, I know the TBSV (twilek) and the BBSV (bith), but not the RBSV Blushing .

The JHs have thud bug, which has worked for me in the past, even though it's only 10 damage.

I changed it a little to work in a OG.

--YV, don't hurt them, just kill them--
26 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
40 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x2
19 Yomin Carr
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(148pts. 10 activations)



RBSV is a Rodian black sun vigo, it lets all followers within 6 to not be targeted be accurate unless they are the closest.
shinja
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:11:23 AM
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@Lobo

Are you confusing the Praetorite Vong Warrior with the Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian. You made a reference to more damage, and that's the Warrior (Cunning +20), not the Guardian.
LoboStele
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 4:33:59 AM
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shinja wrote:
@Lobo

Are you confusing the Praetorite Vong Warrior with the Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian. You made a reference to more damage, and that's the Warrior (Cunning +20), not the Guardian.


Doh, yep. Was referring to the one with Cunning +20, which would be the new Warrior, not the Guardian. My bad. Those ones are not as beefy as the JHs or OGs though, so if you run one of those ones, I'd be sure to lead with the JHs or OGs to soak up most of the damage if you can. Then just have the PVW leap-frog the other two to make his Cunning Attacks when the opportunity arises.

Eroschilles wrote:
I changed it a little to work in a OG.

--YV, don't hurt them, just kill them--
26 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
40 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter x2
19 Yomin Carr
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(148pts. 10 activations)


Overall, this is MUCH better. I still like the idea of a bodyguard in there somehow, and there's the possibility that this might be one of those "too many chiefs, not enough indians" sort of builds. But pulling a Reserves with Lobot would make a big difference there.

If you want the Cunning damage, might go with the Praetorite Warrior instead of the OG (sorry I got confused earlier), and then you'd have 6 points left for more Ugos or MDs.
Eroschilles
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 5:47:44 AM
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Alright, what if I switched a JH for the PVW? That'll put at 150 pts, and I get the cunning with one dude for a potentiall 50+ a hit if both the priest n shaper are close. Then I have 2 guys with JH ability for 40+ under the right conditions. Does that improve the squad?
markedman247
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:32:02 AM
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I am interested in how the new 150 with the Vong. Borrowing the template that Eroshilles has laid out there and the concept of the RBSV, would this be similiar to what was being said?


26 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian
24 Rodian Black Sun Vigo
22 Praetorite Vong Warrior
20 Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter
19 Yomin Carr
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
14 Yuuzhan Vong Elite Warrior
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(149pts. 10 activations)

It's a tough call for dropping the Shaper but you can't protect both of them and keep them completely covered. So, I opted for dropping the Shaper and a Mouse, to put in the RBSV and a Elite Warrior. He may not be as awe inspiring as the JH's, Guardians, or PVWs but he does still add another body that can take damage. Still, if by some miracle that 11 is struck, then you have 50 pts of help coming off of the bench. Essentially bringing in 50 pts of bodyguards if necessary. Now, I am tempted to drop the RBSV for Jolee to boost attacks and defense even more.



LoboStele
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:54:09 AM
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I'd use two Advanced Scouts instead of the Elite Warrior, and that would free up 2 more points for you to put in another Ugo or Mouse Droid as well. The Elite Warrior won't do much compared to the other three main attackers. And it can often be better to have more cheap Spit Poison pieces sitting in the back to harass the opponent with.

The 50 points of reinforcements is impressive, and as long as you keep the RBSV near Lobot, and a Mouse Droid or two up near your main pieces, you could keep Lobot out in the open for consistent Recon, which is pretty nice.

Actually, in that type of build, I may be more inclined to just go with all Jedi Hunters, and take the extra 8 points from not using the OG or PVW, and then the 14 from the Elite Warrior, and work the Shaper or Priest back in instead.

Probably 6 of one, half-dozen of the other though. Personal preference.

The RBSV idea will certainly work much better at 200 points, and I think that's where it would really start to shine.
Tirade
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2009 7:16:05 AM
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LoboStele wrote:
I'd use two Advanced Scouts instead of the Elite Warrior, and that would free up 2 more points for you to put in another Ugo or Mouse Droid as well. The Elite Warrior won't do much compared to the other three main attackers. And it can often be better to have more cheap Spit Poison pieces sitting in the back to harass the opponent with.

The 50 points of reinforcements is impressive, and as long as you keep the RBSV near Lobot, and a Mouse Droid or two up near your main pieces, you could keep Lobot out in the open for consistent Recon, which is pretty nice.

Actually, in that type of build, I may be more inclined to just go with all Jedi Hunters, and take the extra 8 points from not using the OG or PVW, and then the 14 from the Elite Warrior, and work the Shaper or Priest back in instead.

Probably 6 of one, half-dozen of the other though. Personal preference.

The RBSV idea will certainly work much better at 200 points, and I think that's where it would really start to shine.


I always thought the RBSV was underrated for what it does.
ken_watson76
Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:25:30 AM
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I'm with LoboStele: I think you need the Shaper or a Priest, markedman. Neither the OG nor the PVW are THAT much better than a JH, unmodified, and it further justifies the use of the RBSV. And she'll be able to spit poison from behind the line of scrimmage, thus allowing her to also effectively contribute to the combat.

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