I don't understand how this piece is 63 points. For what you're paying for, you're getting a wrecking ball that, when played in tandem with Ulic, has the possibility of receiving parry/evade. Compared to other similarly-costed characters, there's no competition. Compared to vastly outcosted pieces, such as Lord Krayt, Dooku, and others, he still wrecks them. We've already banned one piece. I think it's Bane's turn.

Hit Points: 170
Defense: 20
Attack: 16
Damage: 30

Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Djem So Style (Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.)
Irrepressible Force (This character’s Force powers cannot be cancelled)
Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Force Focus 2 (Force 2: For the rest of the turn, this character's Force powers' range is increased by 2 and when they deal damage, deal an additional 20 damage)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Leaping Assault (Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.)
Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once)
Overwhelming Force (Force 1: This character's attacks cannot be prevented or redirected this turn)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)

I think we need more data - what's the exact squad that you think is a problem? What squads has it beaten?

Have you looked at tournament results (Regionals etc) from this year? How do you think your Bane/Ulic squad stacks up against the squads that atmsalad has identified as top tier for this season?



The version of Bane that I've seen doing well is generally with Revan Sith Lord for deepstrike.



It's a very good squad concept, but generally we're seeing fragile, high tech, high activation squads dominating tournament play this year. I would be thrilled to see big beats like Mace and Bane doing well, but it's not really happening.

Bane's tough, but IMO there are plenty of tough tournament squads that will give him a very difficult time. If he's dominating your local game, you should have a look at what's been played at various Regionals and tournaments this year for some ideas. Talon Kardde pure Fringe builds should generally cause him problems.

How does affinity work in that case? I wouldn't have thought that Bane would become Mandalorian in a Ulic squad - so he wouldn't be eligible as the Training Sergeant's CE specifies a Mandalorian.

Even if it's legal, it's 158 points for Bane, Ulic, and the MTS, right? If you want a low activation, powerful squad that's similar, I'd much rather go with something like this (you have 24 points for stuff like Mando Demolitionists for door control):
--Reignir Mandos--
58 Mandalore the Vindicated
34 Mandalorian Training Sergeant
28 Kelborn
56 Neo-Crusader Officer x2
(176pts. 5 activations)

You get a movement breaker, a shooter, disruptive, 9 shots for 30 each round - it's just much stronger than the Bane squad IMO.....

Really, he's just a replacement for the original Darth Bane to account for powercreep. He fills the exact same niche as he did back in the day: A big brute that's pure offense, no defense. He's even got the same strengths and weaknesses: He'll excel in 1 on 1 fights, but go down hard to concentrated firepower. In fact, he's actually more vulnerable than his original counterpart as he doesn't have Sith Sorcery to lock down large swaths of the opponent's squad.

Also pretty sure Dooku could hold his own against Bane with riposte 2 and twin. Bane is good but as was said there are lots of tougher squads out there and if it's the banning that's wanted there are tons of things ahead in the line before we start hitting beats. (Example Windu, GOWK, assorted cheaper Sith and New Republic).

while that's true, you can bring in the ultimate and make him a mando with mando conscription, obviously you are playing at above 200 at that point.

so I win, its possible.

The way he was played, the mando training sergeant was giving him evade and parry. I don't care how many activations the squad had -- when you have a beatstick like Bane with the two best defensive moves (evade/parry) and FPs to allow rerolls, he's a killing machine.

My point is, he's 62pts and walks all over other pieces regardless of point cost. It doesn't make any sense to ever play a Sith squad without him because of how aggressively costed he is.

The tradeoff with old-school Bane was that he was 20pts more (82 or 88), that means he was a significant part of the team. Now he's severely undercosted.

At least with Krayt, you're spending 114pts -- more than half your team, in order to pull off one nifty trick. With Bane/Ulic/Mando, sure, you're spending lots of points, but when Bane has Evade/Parry, high defense, and a pool of HP, AND Djem So, AND overwhelming Force, and all those other frills he has, he's unstoppable.

Look, I get that we're always going to hide behind various things in order to disguise the tremendous NPE some of these pieces bring to the table, but as a community, as fellow gamers, and as members of a dying game, I just wish we'd take the time to acknowledge that NPE exists, and try to curttail it in some way. Being shut down and told to just deal with it, or denying that it exists in some cases -- or the double-standard of, "Dude, just use shooters!" and then wondering why melee-based teams are losing their edge, in my opinion, is helping no one.

Mando Sergeant can't help Bane. That's not hiding behind anything.

And were there two Mando Sergeants? The Sergeant can only hand out one ability at a time. Even one Sergeant basically makes Bane 96 points, which is only 18 points less than Lord Krayt. Two Sergeants (to give him both Evade AND Parry) is 138 points to have one super-powered beat.

Good news is that the NPE you're concerned about does not exist because it is not possible in 200pt constructed.
You can't get conscription Mando -Ulic & Bane together with Mando Training Sargent or give Bane Evade and Perry.
However, I'm glad you brought this issue up...

The even better news is that you've helped me figure out what to play in 500pt Epic! muh haahaha!

maybe something like this?....
--Sith NPE--
143 Mandalore the First
63 Darth Bane, Sith'ari
61 Ulic Qel-Droma
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
34 Mandalorian Training Sergeant
28 Kelborn
28 Neo-Crusader Officer
24 Mandalorian Tactician
46 Neo-Crusader Elite Trooper x2
20 Darth Wyyrlok III
11 Darth Sidious Hologram
6 Mandalorian Demolitionist

(500pts. 13 activations)

My question is (sorry to chime in with my limited recent experience) but why are any pieces being banned? We are trying to make this game better. If there is a problem put it on the Vset team. Let them come up with a solution. If you don't play in tourneys, ban him locally. When I see that Poggle is banned, I wonder why? Sure he has a nifty trick but he can be countered. Isnt there an OR piece that suppresses CE's? Oh I get it, no one wants to run that faction, so Poggle is the demon. Who Cares, Play the blasted Game! It is a game right? You don't pay to play right? There aren't $million$ dollar deals for SWM players are there? Competitive rules want to ban I say ok, but whatever. If a piece "needs to be banned" I, IMO, say no the Vset team needs to make an appropriate counter to the piece in Question. Rant over sorry.