Over the weekend I had a conversation with 2 long time players. They plan to not play to stop playing Competetively unless certain things are addressed. New players have spoken about both their confusion at the mouse droid paradox and it's NPE nature. Are there tools available to beat it? Absolutely, but this is about making our game better and growing the game... Or at least keeping the people we have playing.

Warning: reading-averse person beware, novella follows.

As I've chimed in intermittently in different fora when this hydra/chimera has turned up,
yeah... it's a bit odd that things like Mousies and Gha Nackht or Lobot are predominant things in all present variants of the game.
As others have said, the whole point of a star wars game is for there to be sabers and blasters,
a few jedee and a few guns-for-hire and to just duke that out, a little strategy sure, though not so much a technical tko using EU characters with SAs and CEs galore (sound like 'acronym soup'? that's the common experience of people new to the game or returning from VSET 6 onwards)

though, by the same token,
if people like to get 'technical', then technically, VSETs don't exist, because Roland Barthes, Magritte etc
Mouse Droids? Didn't WotC ban those?
I have a whole deck of 'deity' cards raring to go, some ghost printed on OHTs, in various formats.

No way should I be forced to target a 47cm x 18cm x 13cm toaster with wheels, with 20 DEF, because it is standing between me and some 'super-stealthed' diplomat target hehehe
Nor should a big Yuzzem or Telosian Tank Droid be unable to move past a "Remote Controlled Toaster"... it's too counter-intuitive, and they're only in SW:Ep IV for all of 32 seconds --- they weren't that big a deal, and on screen, nobody seemed to fear them. It's not even like there were mountains of novels and comicbooks, in which the Mouse Droid made a guest appearance and saved the day - unlike minor characters like "PruneFace"... - that was the same 'logic' which, naturally, meant that Gha Nackht and Lobot had to have better CEs and SAs than actual characters who'd been on screen repeatedly, or who were more prominent characters in comics and other novels...

anywho, apologies to take the long and philosophical exegetical tangent
hopefully the awesome roll that the game is on continues -
we have to give credit where credit is due ---
after a lot of people all realised similar things, and discussed those things (mostly civilly),
there has been a mountain of tweaking and errata, which is restoring the 'happy middleground',
and the most recent VSET has a lot of fun pieces
so this will be something that's sorted out shortly so as all of the game --- however you play it,
you can get on with the fun, in a real-world where fun - I'm sure many would lament - is increasingly hard to find

---

as to stats on people coming to the game, or users visiting Bloomilk -
that is an EXCELLENT topic you could make a poll and a whole separate thread about in itself

it seems after two or three years of decline, a 'content drought' if you will,
there are more webtraffic, content being made, and new people coming to comment here on Bloomilk,
and elsewhere. According to google analytics, it's up on last year by around 225 visits per quarter,
that is awesome for a game which has been OutOfProduction for as long as SWMinis has been,
and this doesn't even take into account all the folks out there in the real-world, who may never even have heard of Bloomilk etc.

TheHutts also reflects increased interest in the game,
and apparently GenCon non-competitive games were up on previous years.

In my personal experience, I might have kavetched about good players - dare I say, friends,
who've had to give up the game and switch to VASSAL only, or moved away etc,
yet, at local game clubs and freethinkers societies, new players can be found.
Also, from daring to play some 'public demonstration/exhibition matches", at local cafes or park etc,
it has been fun to introduce new players to the game that way --- that might not be for everyone,
but there may be ways to keep the game going like that.

And of course, partnerships with other similarly interested websites,
forums like Lead Adventure.de, AllScaleTrek, Heroclix Realms and so on... may also find new players to our game (and likewise, introduce new gamers to other game formats out there).

|we also have to return to 'the model' - I've recently read a few papers on Electronic Journal of Combinatorics asking a similar question about our game and a number of other boardgames,

that is, of the percentage of global population who are Sci-Fi fans;
what fraction/subset are Star Wars fans, enough to play a boardgame based on the franchise?
of those, who have the means and resources to play?
how many other games and interests might SWMinis be competing with etc
crunching the numbers, from 7.34Billion, there maybe as many as 100 000|+/- ~30 000| players of minis at any given time,
might play the game.
only as many as 2-3000 of those might 'play competitively' - of those, only 500 or so may be regional champions etc...
It is also interesting to reflect that
Most, would not be from English-as-first-language backgrounds, if the production run statistics we've been able to glean are accurate.
This may explain why a predominantly English-discourse site, such as Bloomilk, is having difficulty to connect with other players who are searching for the transliteration equivalent in other languages
that depends on the assumptions on modelling, what the definition of 'player' is...

compare that model, to the W40K model, or the Chess model, and cross-reference/comparatively analyze for the return ratio of marketing/advertising input for player throughput - we're little fish in a saturated gaming pond hehehe, but, for what is put in, we have an awesome output return

also, compare the futures longevity projection for various games -
Chess is looking it may go the way of Latin, or the Dodo... though Chess is becoming popular again in Africa.
SWMinis looks to be around for a while, and some conjecture a 20 year maxim till turning point (I have a standing wager of a few beers on that) - we might see 1.7-3.2% compounding annually increasing players, I don't think that a million players by 2030 is a bad target to hope for and aim towards

The main factors inhibiting newer people to the game -
lack of exposure, owing to us not going the NECA route and making minis again,
real-world problems inhibiting not only discretionary time but also discretionary income,
the extreme niche-market angle traditionally associated with boardgames (and even apps based on boardgames) |

The general mentality of the V-Sets has always been to keep the original WOTC game intact. I guess we've reached a point where new V-Set cards are making the mouse droid "problem" worse? Or is this just something that people want to change because they've been griping about it since the mouse was released?

First off, I don't see this as changing the wizards of the coast game. I see it as reclassifying the size of 1 character, which doesn't even effect it's card as far as I'm aware. It would be a glossary and bloomilk fix.

Secondly, making changes such as this is to make the game better for those that still play and for those that are just now learning the game. It is no secret that the mouse can create an NPE and at the same time make no sense as a wall, thing to hide behind... Etc.

We don't want to lose current players or turn new players off to the game. That is why some changes such as this should be made.

@bolded
this argument never holds any weight. Why stop there? because that issue would be solved of course.
@underlined
sounds like a great reason to do something about it. When complaints are very very consistent, its a problem that should be fixed.
@ the rest
boo hoo! he used rhetoric just like you did in your post. its part of debate.


Changing WOTC game should not be an issue for any current player of the game. The game moves on, shifts, hopefully for the better. It is a living game. All "living" games shift things, ban things, restrict things, etc. Its part of the territory.
I say we go ahead and get on board. As far as I have seen banning Poggle and Klat Ass have been incredibly well received. Changes can be made and be good for the game.

I respect V-set designs (when playing standard) enough to equate their designs as the same importance as WOTC designs, as should anyone playing Standard. To differentiate is worthless.
Just like I respect Legends designs the same way as WotC when playing legends.

I think adding a new size designation such as Tiny and making it so it doesn't provide cover is probably the best solution, hence i voted for the 3rd option in the poll.

I have been a follower of the rules forum for a long, long time. I fully understand the issues people have with the rules. But, "thematic" reasons are pathetic reasons to change the rules. And this, establishing a completely new base size, with new rules associated, is completely different than creating a new ability. And quite honestly, creating a foothold for people who want to change the rules for thematic reasons is not something I would argue for.

Creating a new ability and adding it a WOTC piece is not something I am thrilled with, but it is better than messing with the rules like you are proposing.

Agree with not being thrilled with adding/changing WOTC cards.

Rather than modifying the existing WOTC piece, i'd be more in favor of banning it from v-set games and designing a new mouse droid v-set card to allow it in with whatever needs to change to remove the NPE. I'm not in favor of errata for existing WOTC cards. This game only works because the cards are the rule book. When we start changing that, the game loses integrity.

Also agree. Thematic is not a reason anything should be done in this game. If we're going for thematic, why don't we change the way grenades can't target an empty space? Lets change the DR of huges to actually negate most blaster fire from medium pieces? Why not give every jedi access to block/deflect? The game was designed with its own logic which works for what it is. It also doesn't care much about Thematic issues, as its designed to allow characters of different era's to play in the same squad. We should focus on the problems linked to mechanics, not to themes.

Unless you're banning the old card and releasing a new one, its a problem in that any player who doesn't have some sort of errata/rule sheet on hand can't play the game accurately. The mini's card is the rule book. If we start modifying those, then we have no definitive rules source.

Edit: Also, even if you do swap cards to a v-set, i see this causing confusion for players, but it would be better than just expecting people to know that the card is not valid.

It isn't a simple glossary entry. How do you define what is a tiny base or not? As small as the Mouse Droid is, it is still on the same physical size base as many other small figures. How do you distinguish one from another. And then you are adding additional complications that are NOT ON THE CARD.

Redefining base size is much, much more complicated than a simple glossary entry.