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FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:38:30 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
I thought this would be an interesting discussion. Assume you're going to a small 4-player tournament and you know your opponents are dedicated to practicing their particular squad for a regional or GenCon. So you know the other 3 squads. What squad do you bring in order to give yourself the best chance of beating all 3 squads?

Here are the 3 squads:

--You Can't See Me, Nah Nah Nah-Nah Nah--
58 Mandalore the Vindicated
28 Kelborn
24 Mandalorian Tactician
23 Mandalorian Captain
38 Mandalorian Scout x2
11 Death Watch Saboteur
12 Mandalorian Demolitionist x2
6 Mouse Droid x2

(200pts. 11 activations)


--Beyond Annoying--
23 Crix Madine, SpecForce Commander
21 Marn Hierogryph
19 Princess Leia, Rebel Commando
18 Major Bren Derlin
75 SpecForce Wilderness Fighter x5
14 General Rieekan
9 General Dodonna
9 R2-D2 with Extended Sensor
12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(200pts. 16 activations)


--Dance of Death: UberTank--
54 Darth Caedus, Sith Lord
49 Juggernaut
31 Barriss Offee, Rogue Jedi
30 Vergere
14 Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit
11 Freedon Nadd, Dark Force Spirit
10 Squib Trader

(199pts. 7 activations)


(Squads chosen pretty much arbitrarily)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 9:49:45 AM
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So some thoughts as you're building your squad...

Mandos
* MtV's Disruptive is going to be a problem if you have to have CEs active while you engage in close-quarters
* Almost the whole squad is Cloaked, so you need to have a way to deal with that.
* If you can disrupt them, that would help a lot. Twin, a movement breaker, and activating 3 are some powerful CEs.

Rebels
* This squad gets hurt really badly by losing its CEs
* He can steal your reinforcements
* Built for a game of attrition, which may make it hard to get a 3pt win

Sith
* Force Immunity is the silver bullet against this squad
* Other than that, lots of cheap Force users to pop the ghosts
* Overwhelming Force type abilities to cut through the tanks


If you can manage an auto-win against all three at the same time, great. But if you can just get a legitimate advantage against all 3 I'd call that a success.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:41:48 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
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Some other thoughts...
* No init control on any of these. So Master Tactician or MTB or even a big Tactician could work really well. The Mandos have early movement and the Sith have Aing-Tii, though.
* Easy to out-activate Sith or Mandos if you want to.
* Two of the squads are full of shooters. One is full of melee and direct damage. That makes it harder to prepare for all 3.


Faction-wise, I think you look first at Vong, Fringe or Imperial to counteract the Sith squad. From there, a deep strike squad would probably work best since the other 2 squads rely on commanders. If you can take out Rieekan/Leia or take out two of the Mando Captain/Tactician/Kelborn, you're probably golden.

For a deep strike, that may point to Embo as the best option. If you get to 17 activations plus activation control, or if you can negate Dodonna, you out-activate the Rebels and can reach the backfield pretty easily. Master Tactician would also be extremely helpful with the deep strike since you can go both first and last to extend your reach. A 32 square run by Embo lets him easily kill Leia or Rieekan if he can get the doors open. The Mandos are a bigger issue because he can't swap back out of Disruptive, and he can't kill MtV in one activation. But he could rush in for an end of round hit and then run 16 back out at the top of the round. And still need a way to deal with Cloaked.

Going at it the other direction, if we try to tackle the Mandos first, probably the easiest thing is to just fight fire with fire. They need to shoot. Give them nothing to shoot at - all cloaked. And all melee, which means that once they're engaged the melee should have the advantage. But that means moving away from Imperial. You could go with Cloaked Blastbuggers... might be ideal. Force Immunity stop Sith; non-save based, non-attack damage slows down Rebels; and Cloaked slows down Mandos. Cloaked Blastbuggers are most vulnerable to Strafe/scissors pieces but none of these squads have that.

TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:02:39 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
How would this go? It can outactivate all of the other builds, and Vader's Overwhelming Force is handy against the Sith and against Mando the Vindicated.

--Gimp Imps--
71 Lord Vader
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
23 Jarael
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
5 Imperial Dignitary
21 Rodian Brute x7

(198pts. 14 activations)

Just noticed Marn in the Rebels, so maybe I'd fiddle with it to drop Jarael from the main squad, mainline an Amanin, and use Lobot to bring in a second attacker like Evazan.

Some swarms might work too - Blast Bugs as mentioned above, or even Daala with Pellaeon.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:16:45 PM
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I think it needs Pellaeon in there. Without Pellaeon, Vader can come in and kill Juggernaut in one turn at the end of the round with LSA+OWF (assuming no bad rolls). But then he's parked right there next to Caedus/Barriss. Aing-Tii + 2 SBM + Double Cunning. It might not kill him (depends on the Mines saves), but it would be close. And then he'd die to Caedus' Riposte.

He should be able to take out MtV, though, if he can reach him. No Opportunist and Vader can't swap out, but he can attack last and first. Resol'nare would likely move MtV away, but that generates an aoo. So 80dmg at the end of the round and then 60 at the top, all with OWF would kill MtV (again assuming no bad rolls).
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:19:57 PM
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
FlyingArrow wrote:
I think it needs Pellaeon in there. Without Pellaeon, Vader can come in and kill Juggernaut in one turn at the end of the round with LSA+OWF (assuming no bad rolls). But then he's parked right there next to Caedus/Barriss. Aing-Tii + 2 SBM + Double Cunning. It might not kill him (depends on the Mines saves), but it would be close. And then he'd die to Caedus' Riposte.


Against Sith I'd try to kill Barris first with Overwhelming Force if I can. Overwhelming Force means no Bodyguard. Pellaeon would need very careful placement - it really cramps Vader's style if he's in the bubble. I'd maybe use Evazan as a reinforcement to heal Vader and potentially drop the last damage on Caedus.

Against Rebels I'd try and deep strike. I think it's possible, but it might be a points win.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:25:25 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
Against Sith I'd try to kill Barris first with Overwhelming Force if I can. Overwhelming Force means no Bodyguard. Pellaeon would need very careful placement - it really cramps Vader's style if he's in the bubble. I'd maybe use Evazan as a reinforcement to heal Vader and potentially drop the last damage on Caedus.

Against Rebels I'd try and deep strike. I think it's possible, but it might be a points win.


Oh right - I forgot about that. Yes, killing Barriss would probably work just fine. Probable advantage versus Sith. I think the only way they can defend against that is to block a doorway. Then Vader has to Leap to reach her and has to choose between OWF and LSA. Going with OWF means only 60dmg on her. So very map dependent. Sith have to have the right doorway in the right spot. If it's too far up, the Amanin might be able to run over Barriss... but he could die to Mines on the way. If it's too far back, Imperials can wait safely in gambit.

Against Rebels, it would probably be map dependent. You'd need the doors open to reach the commanders.

Against Mandos, would there be enough firepower available? I guess if you can kill MtV you can pick them off one by one while trying to hide. But with Resol'nare they can close ground pretty quickly. And if you can't kill MtV it's game over because Vader can't swap out and they activate 3.


(This discussion is a lot more interesting than just building a hate squad against one squad.)
Mando
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:29:25 PM
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I think this might do well. Its one of my all time favorite squads that is an original. It's done well vs other top squads that I have played over the last few years and beaten many of them.

Cloaked Figures

I'll post the squad here also below.

--Cloaked Figures--
43 Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth
39 Quinlan Vos, Double Agent
30 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Padawan
29 Aayla Secura, Jedi Knight
23 Foul Moudama
14 Coleman Trebor
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
5 Rodian Diplomat
5 Salacious Crumb
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 10 activations)

Even with all the sets we've gotten since I created this squad, I can't imagine any other way to improve it. Its got 2 really good movement breakers (Foul Moudama can get Master speed from Coleman Treebor). It can grant force cloak to everyone first round. From then on, you can give lightsaber assault, Brutal strike and Force pull 2 to everyone. You can give Master of the Force 2 to Aayla so that she can use Lightsaber Sweep and Brutal Strike at the same time. The ability for Quinalan and Aayla to do lightsaber assault with twin attack is amazing. Quinlan and Aayla each can get to a 24 defense, which is pretty good. Everyone can get Lightsaber defense, everyone can get auto damage (grip 2 or 1, Force Lightning for 20 dmg). Its got a number of dangerous threats. I originally made this squad to beat the Admiral Daala squads that were running rampant a while back and it can handle a number of different squads. It has 2 forms of tank busting in the squad: Brutal Strike and Overwhelming force. If you take out Aayla (or any of the other unique pieces in the squad), Obi Wan suddenly gets Overwheling Force and thus shares it with everyone else.

TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:29:51 PM
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
I'm pretty sure there are squads that are better equipped out there, I just liked throwing this Thrawn and Lord Vader in the ring because it's all WOTC (although I'd certainly want some v-set reinforcements).
juice man
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:34:09 PM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
I'd try this:

--It's a Blast (bug)--
28 Zenoc Quah
19 Warrior Caste Subcommander
14 Yuuzhan Vong Seer
13 Yun-Ne'Shel Priest
99 Shamed Warrior x9
21 Shamed Intendant x3
6 Advance Scout

(200pts. 17 activations)

Shamed Warriors have Razorbugs + Blast and Thud bugs at a range of 8. They have evade, when not disrupted. And Yun-Ne'Shel Devotion for that extra +4 to saves.

Mandos will be very tricky.
spryguy1981
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:19:25 AM
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Joined: 2/16/2009
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Embolical Karrdes would work well here

50 Boba Fett-AFH
42 Embo
32 Talon Karrde, Information Broker
28 Mira of Nar Shaada
27 Lobot
9 Mouse x3
6 Uggie x2
6 Brute x2

Enough movement shenanigans to handle things, already beat high activation MtV Cannon squad with Cloaked Figures during the Vassal Regional, Can beat the Sith squad pretty handily. would hold up well vs Rebels also. Vs MtV bring in Teebo and use Sentry to shoot the scouts.

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