|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
|
Please add to this thread your list of balance issue figures that should be looked at again. And even if its a figure we looked at last year and didn't change to your liking, it's still ok to put it on the list. We will look again.
This is to accumulate issues.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
The main thing I've seen mentioned consistently this year is concerns over the Vong; I think the Domain Lah Warrior, Warrior Caste Subcommander, and Yun-Ne'Shel Priest have all been mentioned.
Also, I've seen concerns about:
Marn Hierogryph
Stormtrooper TK-421
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/10/2010
Posts: 760
Location: The Shadowlands of Kashyyyk
|
Could be wrong but wasn't it agreed Marn wasn't and issue? Same with TK-421?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
|
I would I would love to look at changing the Sidious Hologram.
The Vong pieces mentioned.
I would also like to look into raising Mas Amedda's cost to 14.
and of course Han Solo in Carbonite needs a serious change ;0
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Cassus fett wrote:Could be wrong but wasn't it agreed Marn wasn't and issue? Same with TK-421? I don't think there was consensus. TK-421 in particular might need a look since he's recent. People were concerned that he could cause problems for a Talon Kardde squad - he can sit and get gambit, and if you kill him you lose Talon's CE.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
jen'ari wrote:I would I would love to look at changing the Sidious Hologram. The WOTC one? Because he's too powerful?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/10/2010
Posts: 760
Location: The Shadowlands of Kashyyyk
|
I like holo sid. He's benign by himself. He's only really powerful with Wyyrlok and thats 31 points and sometimes you just don't have room for that even at 200
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,112
|
Cassus fett wrote:Could be wrong but wasn't it agreed Marn wasn't and issue? Same with TK-421? Balance team can still look at them and should probably at least discuss them (whether they make changes or not).
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/10/2010
Posts: 760
Location: The Shadowlands of Kashyyyk
|
Personally i like Tk-421. But then my play group had some… issues with all fringe Talon squads
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,112
|
Cassus fett wrote:Persobally i like Tk-421. But then my play group had some… issues with all fringe Talon squads I do too, and I don't think he needs changed, but I don't always agree with the balance committee.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
It basically needs an Imperial squad with Pellaeon and a dispensable 10-15 point piece (possibly Ozzel if you're playing against Talon) vs Talon.
So it's only going to occur in a small proportion of games.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
The problem with TK-421 isn't really one of balance in my opinion, it's just that he's either not a very good piece (against basically any squad except a Talon squad), or he is really, really obnoxious (against a Talon squad). He's really flavorful, which is important to me as both a player and a designer, but I just have a hard time seeing a fun application of him in the game.
That's well outside the scope of the balance committee, so I don't think they will do anything. Maybe if enough testing and considering shows that he is just too abusive against Talon squads he'll get banned, but I don't expect that to be the case at first thought.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
Echo24 wrote:The problem with TK-421 isn't really one of balance in my opinion, it's just that he's either not a very good piece (against basically any squad except a Talon squad), or he is really, really obnoxious (against a Talon squad). He's really flavorful, which is important to me as both a player and a designer, but I just have a hard time seeing a fun application of him in the game.
That's well outside the scope of the balance committee, so I don't think they will do anything. Maybe if enough testing and considering shows that he is just too abusive against Talon squads he'll get banned, but I don't expect that to be the case at first thought. It's more of an unfortunate side effect. I fully intended to bring him in at GenCon vs an all fringe squad, but never faced one. When I was considering an offer in squad that piece alone kept me from considering it further. I like the flavor, it's just unfairly hurts all fringe. It's unfortunate it just happens to be in the perfect faction to abuse it. It's an easy fix - the player who now has Luke gets to declare the faction. Done. He stays the same but doesn't neuter Talon.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
|
TimmerB123 wrote:
It's an easy fix - the player who now has Luke gets to declare the faction. Done. He stays the same but doesn't neuter Talon.
I'd say don't even give a choice, just make it so a Luke being added to play is automatically the dominant faction of the opponent's squad.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,444
|
Easier option is to make accepting Luke optional.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
FlyingArrow wrote:Easier option is to make accepting Luke optional. Great call
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,485
|
TimmerB123 wrote:Echo24 wrote:The problem with TK-421 isn't really one of balance in my opinion, it's just that he's either not a very good piece (against basically any squad except a Talon squad), or he is really, really obnoxious (against a Talon squad). He's really flavorful, which is important to me as both a player and a designer, but I just have a hard time seeing a fun application of him in the game.
That's well outside the scope of the balance committee, so I don't think they will do anything. Maybe if enough testing and considering shows that he is just too abusive against Talon squads he'll get banned, but I don't expect that to be the case at first thought. It's more of an unfortunate side effect. I fully intended to bring him in at GenCon vs an all fringe squad, but never faced one. When I was considering an offer in squad that piece alone kept me from considering it further. I like the flavor, it's just unfairly hurts all fringe. It's unfortunate it just happens to be in the perfect faction to abuse it. It's an easy fix - the player who now has Luke gets to declare the faction. Done. He stays the same but doesn't neuter Talon. Pretty sure it's a feature, not a bug. Like, intentional. The unintentional part more has to do with the piece being played in competitive formats. But I see it as just like any number of annoying things I hope I won't sit down across from. If someone wants to play it on the off chance they'll get to mess up a Talon squad, that's their call. If anything were to change, I would say just have it not able to get gambit. That won't affect the fun formats, but also won't be such an annoyance in tournaments. And it makes a certain kind of sense--the character obviously wasn't very effective in his job 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008
Posts: 1,274
Location: Los Angeles, California
|
Cassus fett wrote:Could be wrong but wasn't it agreed Marn wasn't and issue? Same with TK-421? +1. To make balance committee changes, shoudn't there be considerable community chatter about Npe's in multiple games, regionals, and GenCon? I don't/didn't hear any concrete game experieces that can possibly lead to changing these pieces. I'm hearing 1 or 2 people complaining about these minis. So basically, TK neuters Talon squads, and Marn counters Vong and Sideous/Lothal squads ????????? Come on..............I'm hearing way more people complaining about these squads, then with these minis that peops didn't even play with @ GenCon.............."these aren't the droids you're looking for.......move along"
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
UrbanShmi wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Echo24 wrote:The problem with TK-421 isn't really one of balance in my opinion, it's just that he's either not a very good piece (against basically any squad except a Talon squad), or he is really, really obnoxious (against a Talon squad). He's really flavorful, which is important to me as both a player and a designer, but I just have a hard time seeing a fun application of him in the game.
That's well outside the scope of the balance committee, so I don't think they will do anything. Maybe if enough testing and considering shows that he is just too abusive against Talon squads he'll get banned, but I don't expect that to be the case at first thought. It's more of an unfortunate side effect. I fully intended to bring him in at GenCon vs an all fringe squad, but never faced one. When I was considering an offer in squad that piece alone kept me from considering it further. I like the flavor, it's just unfairly hurts all fringe. It's unfortunate it just happens to be in the perfect faction to abuse it. It's an easy fix - the player who now has Luke gets to declare the faction. Done. He stays the same but doesn't neuter Talon. Pretty sure it's a feature, not a bug. Like, intentional. The unintentional part more has to do with the piece being played in competitive formats. But I see it as just like any number of annoying things I hope I won't sit down across from. If someone wants to play it on the off chance they'll get to mess up a Talon squad, that's their call. If anything were to change, I would say just have it not able to get gambit. That won't affect the fun formats, but also won't be such an annoyance in tournaments. And it makes a certain kind of sense--the character obviously wasn't very effective in his job You're definitely correct about it being a feature, not a bug. He was specifically designed to work like this. Pellaeon makes it far too easy for Imperial squads to pull it off, though. I think the designers thought that since overall he isn't a very strong piece they didn't have to worry about his use competitively, but with Pellaeon being able to bring him in only against the one squad type he is too strong against he will always be an option and is just not fun. Like I said before, "not fun" is outside the scope of the balance committee, and I haven't actually played an all-Fringe squad against TK specifically yet. Maybe ignoring him all game isn't such a big deal; plenty of squads naturally get Gambit every round and it's not like he packs an offensive punch. I don't think there is enough data to say he's unbalanced enough to require errata.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
DarthMaim wrote:Cassus fett wrote:Could be wrong but wasn't it agreed Marn wasn't and issue? Same with TK-421? +1. To make balance committee changes, shoudn't there be considerable community chatter about Npe's in multiple games, regionals, and GenCon? I don't/didn't hear any concrete game experieces that can possibly lead to changing these pieces. I'm hearing 1 or 2 people complaining about these minis. So basically, TK neuters Talon squads, and Marn counters Vong and Sideous/Lothal squads ????????? Come on..............I'm hearing way more people complaining about these squads, then with these minis that peops didn't even play with @ GenCon.............."these aren't the droids you're looking for.......move along" Agreed. Lots of squads have counters, I really hope we don't go down the path of changing every piece that nerfs a certain squad type. Errata makes games more difficult to play and more difficult to get into (you have to remember the rules, the pieces, and this list of changes to your pieces that aren't on the cards), so they really shouldn't be taken lightly or done when there aren't even a whole lot of complaints or impact.
|
|
|
Guest |