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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/30/2015 Posts: 176
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Hey. I'm trying to find any information on Shrouded and how it actually works - is there anything anywhere?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
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It does two things.
1) He can't be targeted by special abilities if the enemy is within 6 squares from him. So, Grenades, Thud Bug, Flamethrower, etc. can't pick him as the primary target unless they've got something to extend the range and are using the ability from more than 6 squares away. Force Powers and abilities that generate attacks can still work against him though.
2) He cannot gain any abilities that reduce damage or prevent damage. So, as the tradeoff, he can't be given any abilities like Shields or Evade. He could still gain force powers like Force Bubble though.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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"Abilities" includes Force Powers as well as Special Abilities. (See Squad Discipline for another use of "abilities".)
So he cannot be targeted by Force Powers within 6 squares (e.g. Lightning). He can still be attacked by abilities like Lightsaber Assault that generate attacks. Abilities that generate attacks target the attacker.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
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FlyingArrow wrote:"Abilities" includes Force Powers as well as Special Abilities. (See Squad Discipline for another use of "abilities".)
Hrm. It used to be that Abilities and Force Powers were differentiated in both card text and/or glossary definitions (examples: Disintegration, Intuition, Melee Reach, Snare Rifle, Twin Attack) and not in an all-encompassing "abilities". When exactly did this change and where is it written down?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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I didn't realize it was a change. Perhaps with squad discipline?
Send swinefeld a ping. He should weigh in here.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/26/2010 Posts: 530
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From the FAQ:
Q: What exactly counts as an attack? Many defensive abilities say they work against "attacks." Does this mean they work against every sort of offensive ability? A: An attack is rolling a d20, adding the character's Attack number (including modifiers), comparing to the target's Defense, and dealing damage equal to the attacker's Damage number (including modifiers). If an offensive ability isn't resolved that way, it doesn't count as an attack. Thus, many defensive abilities cannot protect against abilities such Missiles, Grenades, Force Lightning, and so on because they're not attacks.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/26/2010 Posts: 530
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Also: Glossary Terms wrote:Force powers
These are special attacks, moves, or abilities. When using a Force power, subtract its cost in Force points from the character’s total. A Force power cannot be used if the character doesn’t have enough Force points. http://www.bloomilk.com/Glossary?Id=27
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Rank: TIE Crawler Groups: Member
Joined: 2/17/2016 Posts: 43
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I've been using Wise recently, and this is quite the skill. But I have one question. Corde has Suppressive Fire, if she attacks within 6 squares is suppressive fire then suppressed itself?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
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Vankovich wrote:I've been using Wise recently, and this is quite the skill. But I have one question. Corde has Suppressive Fire, if she attacks within 6 squares is suppressive fire then suppressed itself? As supressive fire does not target, it is not affected by Shrouded. @Kamikaze13: What I'm getting at is that when you go through the WotC rulebook and glossary, it almost never uses the term "abilities" (there isn't even a definition for "ability"). It instead uses "Special Abilities and Force Powers". Look at the wordings in the definitions of Disintegration, Desert Skiff, or Snare Rife. Breath Mask uses the term "abilities and Force Powers" in it's description, implying that they are not the same. Even V-Set things like the aforementioned Suppresive Fire or Brutal Strike use that wording. Honestly, I'm just chalking it up to a combination of inconsistent writing (or possibly a way to save space on the cards) and having it ground into me for over a decade that a Force Power is not an Ability, it is a Force Power.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/14/2008 Posts: 1,410 Location: Chokio, MN
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i've been playing it as I can't even Lightsaber Assault a shrouded target, cause that targets and gives you 2 attacks. Is this correct on its use? its been kinda frustrating since a lot of jedi require the use of Lightsaber Assault to do good damage.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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You can use LSA for the same reason that you can use it against Vong.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009 Posts: 2,240 Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
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EmporerDragon wrote:Vankovich wrote:I've been using Wise recently, and this is quite the skill. But I have one question. Corde has Suppressive Fire, if she attacks within 6 squares is suppressive fire then suppressed itself? As supressive fire does not target, it is not affected by Shrouded. @Kamikaze13: What I'm getting at is that when you go through the WotC rulebook and glossary, it almost never uses the term "abilities" (there isn't even a definition for "ability"). It instead uses "Special Abilities and Force Powers". Look at the wordings in the definitions of Disintegration, Desert Skiff, or Snare Rife. Breath Mask uses the term "abilities and Force Powers" in it's description, implying that they are not the same. Even V-Set things like the aforementioned Suppresive Fire or Brutal Strike use that wording. Honestly, I'm just chalking it up to a combination of inconsistent writing (or possibly a way to save space on the cards) and having it ground into me for over a decade that a Force Power is not an Ability, it is a Force Power. I remember when Captain Tarpals came out. It was a surprise to learn Force Powers were included in his CE. That's when I found out SA's and FP's shared a blanket. It's in the FAQ's.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Tarpals! Awesome. That clarifies it. Thanks. I didn't think it was a newly invented term for Vsets, but my search only turned up Squad Discipline (a Vset ability).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
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juice man wrote:I remember when Captain Tarpals came out. It was a surprise to learn Force Powers were included in his CE. That's when I found out SA's and FP's shared a blanket. It's in the FAQ's. Huh. I can honestly say I never noticed that. I knew that his CE worked on force powers but I guess I always glossed over the fact that the card just said abilities. In any case, as I said before, I'm not disputing it, just attributing it to inconsistent writing.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 1/30/2009 Posts: 6,457 Location: Southern Illinois
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EmporerDragon wrote:juice man wrote:I remember when Captain Tarpals came out. It was a surprise to learn Force Powers were included in his CE. That's when I found out SA's and FP's shared a blanket. It's in the FAQ's. Huh. I can honestly say I never noticed that. I knew that his CE worked on force powers but I guess I always glossed over the fact that the card just said abilities. In any case, as I said before, I'm not disputing it, just attributing it to inconsistent writing. Agreed, there has been some inconsistent writing. Tarpals precedent aside, there is also NTMTO: Quote:Suppresses enemy special abilities that modify initiative I put that out as an example of specific wording in card text to distinguish "special" abilities from the generic "abilities". I'd have to dig hard to turn it up, but Sithborg has backed up the generic interpretation as well. Probably post-Tarpals.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/20/2015 Posts: 1,243
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Actually since LS Assault replaces attacks and the fact that you make 2 attacks to a target wouldn't Shrouded stop that? I see how Sith rage could still be used but not an ability that replaces attacks.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Caedus wrote:Actually since LS Assault replaces attacks and the fact that you make 2 attacks to a target wouldn't Shrouded stop that? I see how Sith rage could still be used but not an ability that replaces attacks. Lightsaber Assault (as well as anything else that generates attacks) targets the attacker. The attacks themselves target the enemy. This is consistent with how it interacts with Force Immunity. You can use Lightsaber Assault against the Vong because you generate attacks for yourself with a Force power (targeting yourself) and then you use those attacks to target the Vong (at that point they're plain old attacks - not a Force power).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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So with shrouded he can't gain Lightsaber Defense?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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General_Grievous wrote:So with shrouded he can't gain Lightsaber Defense? Correct.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/22/2011 Posts: 593
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More rules throwdowns. I love these. like a quiz. Let's see if I pass. probably not..... I'm about 50/50 on these Quote:I remember when Captain Tarpals came out. It was a surprise to learn Force Powers were included in his CE. That's when I found out SA's and FP's shared a blanket. It's in the FAQ's. agree and disagree. Tarpals CE: Each follower can use 2 abilities that replace attacks instead of 1 on its turn. - This used the generic form of "abilities" meaning anything on the stat card under SAs or FPs and in this case that allows you to do something to replaces attacks. Keep in mind you still need MotF 2 to pull this off for FPs Luke's versatility: Versatility (At the start of the skirmish, after set-up, you may replace this character with another character of an equal or lesser cost who counts as Luke Skywalker. The chosen replacement gains one of this character's other special abilities. If the replacement's cost is at least 5 less than this character's cost, he also gains this character's commander effect.) - in this case it is spelled out for you where it specifically says "special abilities" so you are not allowed to take a Force Power. I would have preferred it be printed as the proper noun variation to give more distinction but the fully spelled out version does the same thing. With explaining the above there is shrouded Shrouded: Cannot be targeted by enemy abilities within 6 squares. Cannot gain abilities that reduce or prevent damage. - here is the generic version of the word "abilities" again. covers both SA's and FP's. You can use things on yourself, like Sweep, Assault, Rage, etc... just nothing that directly hits the Shrouded person. My only fuzzy part comes from my Magic the Gathering background that dodges this same named ability. If you don't directly target the shrouded piece, is it still impacted. My guess would be yes and no. If The Wise is not the target but adjacent, he should be hit by grenades. BUT if somebody came in and tried to sith sorcery he should be exempt, even though SS doesn't say "target" anywhere in the ability. In Magic the Gathering, SS WOULD hit him as it doesn't target. like "deal 1 damage to all creatures" would hit shrouded creatures, since it doesn't target them directly. I guess if we go by the letter of the law, SS would be able to hit The Wise since it doesn't directly target him, but I think the intent was to make him immune to enemy abilities within 6. but if that is true does he ignore Force Immunity and Ysalamiri?
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