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New GenCon (and possibly other tournament) playoff structure. Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 1:03:50 PM
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So at GenCon last year we had a depressingly low turnout.

12 players.

Yet since it was specified in the GC catalogue, we still had to do a top 8.

8/12 in the finals. Half of which didn't have winning records. 1 even had a LOSING record. Not disparaging any player, but that on paper was pretty much universally called ridiculous. Including by several of those that made the top 8 and felt they shouldn't have.

There has been talk of simply doing a top 4.

This also seems like a cop-out. We have no idea how many players we'll get in 2017. Honestly I think we'll have more next year (not significantly, but more none-the-less)


What's the most fair way to do it?


I have a solution.

Instead of picking an arbitrary number of finalists for the playoffs, make it based on points scored.


It's simple, and based in the number of rounds:

3 rounds: 6pts or higher
4 rounds: 8pts or higher
5 rounds: 10pts or higher
6 rounds: 12pts or higher

Moot will be the bogus tiebreakers effecting if someone makes the playoffs or not. They will still be applicable to rank the playoff bound players, but if you hit the point total, you're in. Period.


So that part is easy, but what do you do if a number other than 4 or 8 make it in?

This is where this system gets even better.


Often a complaint has been made that the top ranked players have nothing to play for in their last game. They know they've made it and the rest doesn't matter.

Well, now top seeds may get a bye in the quarterfinals.

Now THAT is something worth playing for.



So here's how it works:

With 3 players:
1 gets a bye, 2 plays 3. Winner plays 1 in the finals.

With 4 players:
1 vs 4, 2 vs 3. Winners play in the finals.

With 5 players:
1-3 byes. 4 vs 5, winner faces 1 in the semis, 2 vs 3 in the semis.

With 6 players:
1,2 byes. 6 vs 3 (winner faces 2 in semis) and 4 vs 5 (winner faces 1 in semis)

With 7 players:
1 gets a bye. 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5.

8 players is like normal.

For extreme cases of crazy results we would cap at max numbers of players for the playoffs, in which case it would function exactly the same as it currently does.

I spelled it all out, but it's really simple.

Basically we'd always use an 8 player bracket, but only fill it with the players that hit the requisite point level. Higher seeds have higher probability of a bye, and thus always reason to play to win.


This simultaneously resolves multiple problems:

1. Gives us a concrete way to have a logical number of players make the playoffs with any number of entries. No random guesswork or arbitrary number of finalists needed to be figured out beforehand.

2. Gives inherent incentive to win each round, and to win more tournament points. Players will fight to the end for the chance at automatically advancing to the semifinals.

3. Removes the possibility of a player not making the playoffs with the same tournament score/record as a player who did make it. Random tiebreakers won't keep someone from the playoffs.



This also makes it very easy to put in the GenCon catalogue.

"Players who earn the requisite amount of tournament points will advance to a three round playoff"


It's simple, clean, and based on the system we already have, while taking out the parts that most players dislike.

Sthlrd2
Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 1:15:14 PM
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I have not been at GC the past 2 years and have not witnessed it first hand, but I think this looks like a good solution.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:21:35 PM
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Location: Chicago
A simple cap to maximum allowed playoff slots can be added to avoid having too many for highly unlikely scenarios.

In all reality it will fall at this number or less, but it's good to have a cap just in case.

4-6 = 2 max

7-9 = 3 max

10-12 = 4 max

13-15 = 5 max

16-18 = 6 max

19-21 = 7 max

22 and up = 8 max



My honest guess is that we'll have about 18 next year. It would be silly to only have 4 exactly if #2-5 all have the same score.

Since we don't know, this system scales and the max cap is there just to prevent outlier results.






DarkDracul
Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:52:08 PM
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Location: Kokomo
We all understood why we had to cut to a top 8 with only 12 players this year. However, doing a top 4 next year could potentially be worse. We're in this grayish area of fluctuating participation. I know 4 or 5 players who plan to participate in 2017 who couldn't attend this year. Tim's proposal seems well thought and makes sense to me.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:32:59 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,444
Up to 6 players: Round robin.
7 players: 3 rounds. Then #2 plays #3. Winner plays #1.
8-16: Playoffs is half of the players, rounded down. Byes to top seeds, if necessary.
16+: Top 8.

Summary:
"Playoffs = Top 8 (or half of players, whichever is less)"
jew3
Posted: Monday, November 21, 2016 6:08:06 AM
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Joined: 4/14/2008
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Location: Olivet MI
I have a few concerns with this.
First, from a scheduling standpoint I need a set amount of time to put in for the finals (1,2 or 3 hours). I have to request time for all events, there no way around this.
Second, if we go with the proposed "players with the requisite amount of tournament points advance to a 3 round playoff" we have to run a 3 round playoff regardless of how many people make that number of points. So if for some reason only 4 people have the point total we would have to run it as a 3 round event.
Third, this tournament will only be set up as a 12 player event initially. Derek will not approve more spots until the 1st 12 tickets are sold. I know this from experience, he pulls up previous numbers when approving space. When we sell out I will be able to request more but we need to sell out prior to GenCon.
These are my primary concerns. I have a few more but if we can solve these, it might solve the others too.
jew3
Posted: Monday, November 21, 2016 6:19:21 AM
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That being said, I like the format for a regional setting where things are less formal in the scheduling and requirements.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 6:35:06 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/9/2008
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jew3 wrote:
I have a few concerns with this.
First, from a scheduling standpoint I need a set amount of time to put in for the finals (1,2 or 3 hours). I have to request time for all events, there no way around this.
Second, if we go with the proposed "players with the requisite amount of tournament points advance to a 3 round playoff" we have to run a 3 round playoff regardless of how many people make that number of points. So if for some reason only 4 people have the point total we would have to run it as a 3 round event.
Third, this tournament will only be set up as a 12 player event initially. Derek will not approve more spots until the 1st 12 tickets are sold. I know this from experience, he pulls up previous numbers when approving space. When we sell out I will be able to request more but we need to sell out prior to GenCon.
These are my primary concerns. I have a few more but if we can solve these, it might solve the others too.


It sounds like the decision for GenCon has already been made. These are the confusing things to me:

1. We already have a variable length schedule for the swiss rounds (we are legitimately on the fence between 4 or 5 rounds)

2. We don't sell tickets for the finals.

3. We have in the past not even scheduled the finals.



With the capped maximum I proposed, a 12 player tournament would have 2 rounds of playoffs (4 players).


So if we surpass that (sellout before GenCon) and require more tickets, we also would add a round to the finals. Seems perfectly logical.

Again - without selling tickets for the finals or even really needing a solid schedule for them (we already have a variable swiss schedule), it seems like there isn't really a problem.

As I said it sounds like the decision is already made for GenCon. That's fine - I know there are subtleties to it all that are not simply expressed by verbally describing the structure.
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